At what point does the Fort not become worth it?

[Travisma 1,317]

This is a two fold question, but they are tied together.

 

Maybe we have it harder because we try for only partial sites, but lots of times when we search there is nothing available at any level...

 

So, when does it become so much of a pain to try to book a site that you just give up?

 

Is there a cut off on the # of times you try to book? (I know you can have Jason do it...)

 

Is there a time frame as far as "Hey our trip is in X weeks and we still don't have a Fort spot, time to look elsewhere off site?"

 

Is there a price point where it just doesn't make sense to spend that much $$ for a site?

 

I think the only time a partial is less than $60 is a Tuesday in an off season week, then they are usually booked...

 

Example, we got an Embassy Suite on Priceline this past Saturday night over on Lake Street off Palm Parkway.

 

We got it for $58 a night before the various fees.  Newly renovated, 2 queen beds, sleeper sofa, mini-fridge, microwave. Could sleep 6.

 

Happy hour nightly for 2 hours with adult beverages and snacks.

 

Breakfast Buffet and made to order omelets.

 

Cost I paid to Priceline with taxes, etc. was about $65.

 

The hotel added on a $20 resort fee and a $12 parking fee (we got the parking removed).

 

It was a quick ride to the parks using the back road. 

 

No muss or fuss setting up, breaking down. Nothing to tow,

 

So for around $85 ($97 with parking) we got a great room, drinks and breakfast.  If we had stayed longer we would've brought food or hit up Winn Dixie at the end of the street for dinners and lunches.

 

There are other similar off property deals if you search and hit them at the right time.

 

Since we were visiting parks it worked out great.

 

But, we didn't get to relax at the Fort. 

 

However it seems like the Fort is slowly becoming less relaxing because of the hoards of self-centered idiots.

 

Don't get me wrong, we love the Fort, we have a week scheduled around the 4th of July and we will not be going to the parks.

 

But like everything else at Disney, they are slowly pricing themselves out of reach of the everyday people.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Good points.

 

I'm already there.

 

Going back to around 1999, and for a good 14 or so years thereafter, I used to make it to the Fort six or more times a year.  Back then, there wasn't a lot of pre-planning required.  In the days before online reservations, throwaway campsites,  and all the other recent garbage, I could call WDW a few weeks before I wanted to go, and book a weekend stay.  There were only three levels of campsites, and the price difference between a partial site and a preferred site (no premiums back then) was only about $8 a night.  I usually counted on spending about $150 for three nights of camping.  If I wanted a golf cart, I could rent one from Disney for about $35 a night.  With food and all, we could enjoy a nice weekend at the Fort for less than $300.

 

Now, it's all but impossible to book a weekend without planning months in advance.  And, the prices are so much higher.  It really isn't worth the hassle.  For a weekend trip, it's easier (and often cheaper) to book a hotel room for a night or two.

 

I camped at the Fort once in 2015.  Once.

 

So far, I have no trips planned for 2016.

 

The Fort wants guests who stay longer and plan further in advance, and that's what they're getting.  They don't seem to need my business, and don't care that they've lost it.

 

TCD

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

 The Fort wants guests who stay longer and plan further in advance, and that's what they're getting.  They don't seem to need my business, and don't care that they've lost it.

 

TCD

Then a lot of FL residents do it. All you have to do is look at the license plates here on weekends.

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

I agree. When we first got our camper and Rick retired, (2009) we would pop down to the Fort for long weekends all the time. Even with our 12-hour drive, it was still very doable. We would leave on Thursday afternoon, get there Friday morning, and have Friday afternoon, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, then start heading home about noon on Monday.

 

Now, when gas went up, the prices at the Fort went up, and my work schedule got more and more hectic, we have drastically cut back our weekend Fort trips. We still get Annual Passes every other year, so during our AP "year", we have 1 or 2 extended trips that we plan for at the Fort, but otherwise, our short weekends tend to actually be offsite. The fuel without the camper cuts in half, and I can often stay for free on points at the Holiday Inn on Hotel Plaza Boulevard.

 

So for weekends, the Fort is no longer "worth it".

 

However, for an extended relaxing trip, can't beat the Fort at just about any price.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Then a lot of FL residents do it. All you have to do is look at the license plates here on weekends.

 

That's a good point.  Despite all of the efforts made by management, most of the year, the Fort is only full on weekends.

 

I guess there's a lot of people who plan way ahead of time.  Or there's some loophole that I don't know about.

 

It seems like there are more and more big groups.  A campsite is more affordable when you pack it with a couple of families and split the cost.

 

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

That's a good point.  Despite all of the efforts made by management, most of the year, the Fort is only full on weekends.

 

I guess there's a lot of people who plan way ahead of time.  Or there's some loophole that I don't know about.

 

It seems like there are more and more big groups.  A campsite is more affordable when you pack it with a couple of families and split the cost.

 

TCD

We've tried on and off for weekends quite a few times and never got them, and we're talking about anything from a week to 6 months out.

 

It's a crying shame that you can see sites available if you want to spend 5 or more days, but for a  2 or 3 day stay they don't exist.

 

My wife was trying for a week the beginning of March (Spring Break for Hillsborough County) and it's booked solid, and she's been trying since Christmas.

 

None of the counties around Disney are off that week, and it's way to early for the Northerners Spring Break, so what gives?

 

And we would love to find that loophole also.

 

Or, these people have a large disposable incomes, book the extra days, and only come in for the weekends.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

My wife was trying for a week the beginning of March (Spring Break for Hillsborough County) and it's booked solid, and she's been trying since Christmas.

 

None of the counties around Disney are off that week, and it's way to early for the Northerners Spring Break, so what gives?

 

I have given up on trying to figure out what gives.  Often, Disney puts a block on certain days, and nobody can make a reservation that includes that particular day.  Then, one day, with no rhyme or reason, the block is removed, and you can book that day. In the most recent past, I've had to work with a travel agent to get the dates I want, and the travel agent would email me to let me know that the blocks had been removed.  A lot of times, I had already made other plans, or there wasn't enough lead time, so we didn't go to the Fort.

 

It's not worth the hassle of having to go through all of that.

 

TCD

[Retired and Happy (Ken) 101]

"However it seems like the Fort is slowly becoming less relaxing because of the hoards of self-centered idiots." - Travisma

 

We have been doing December into early Jan every year for maybe 15 years, with a few scattered warm days trips.  This coming year we are cutting back and giving Dolly some of the Mouse's money.  We are adding a week in the summer to chaperone some kids, but over all, we will be there less.  

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

IHowever, for an extended relaxing trip, can't beat the Fort at just about any price.

 

Agreed.

 

However it seems like the Fort is slowly becoming less relaxing because of the hoards of self-centered idiots.

 

I know we talk about this a lot here, but when I really think about it, I honestly don't think we've encountered a greater number of self-centered idiots at the Fort than we do in everyday life.

 

Maybe it seems like there are more or we're more sensitive to it because we're on vacation and would like to think we can leave that nonsense behind also (no such luck - idiots go on vacation too). Or maybe it's because it's a different kind of self-centered idiot than the every day kind (i.e., the "I paid good money for this vacation I can do what I want" kind).

 

We've been at the Fort over holidays, and even Halloween weekend (possibly the craziest time to be there EVAH) and sure, there's some occasional nonsense going on, but it's a blip here and there.

 

Case in point - our 3 weeks this fall included Halloween weekend.  In 20 days we had  2 days of crazybusy as expected, although surprisingly nothing really obnoxious.

 

The rest of the time was very quiet and peaceful, and there were many naps taken in lounge chairs.  :)

 

And that's generally been our experience - weekends get a bit busier (see "hoards"), holidays more so - but the rest of the time is still very calm and relaxing. Since it's our only real vacation all year and we make a big ol' trek to do it (plus the expense), if it were not, we absolutely wouldn't still be doing it.

[CJHokie 43]

We live too far away to just pop in, so any time we're coming has to be over a school break which = busy which = I have to book way in advance.

 

We stayed 11 days, I think, over Christmas, and it was still very relaxing, even with the occasional clown car horn from a golf cart on our loop, and the 2-night party (which I think was the same people.) Maybe we were just lucky.

[Travisma 1,317]

We've been at the Fort the last 2 Halloweens.

 

Other than people blocking sidewalks with their golf carts when trying to get to the various activities, and people insisting of driving trick or treaters through congested loops, I feel those weekends were fairly quiet.  Then again we were in 1500 and 2000 loops.

 

We've encountered more noise, dangerous carts, and jerks on other non holiday trips.

 

It's not even the hassle of getting ready for the trip and the set up and breaking down, as it is the royal pain of trying to book a site.

 

Right now, we can decide on a Thursday or Friday that we want to spend Saturday night near Disney, and without too much trouble find a decent hotel at a good rate.

 

We would have to plan a year out to do that on property...

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

 

 

My wife was trying for a week the beginning of March (Spring Break for Hillsborough County) and it's booked solid, and she's been trying since Christmas.

 

None of the counties around Disney are off that week, and it's way to early for the Northerners Spring Break, so what gives?

 

And we would love to find that loophole also.

 

Or, these people have a large disposable incomes, book the extra days, and only come in for the weekends.

She should turn the job over to a TA. Either Jason, preferred, or any other.  I think DISNEY's system is more friendly towards them than the average Joe, either on the phone or on-line.  Doesn't cost you a dime more.

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

I second using a TA.

[Katman1356...Jason 1,140]

She should turn the job over to a TA. Either Jason, preferred, or any other.  I think DISNEY's system is more friendly towards them than the average Joe, either on the phone or on-line.  Doesn't cost you a dime more.

 

I definitely appreciate the thought but I have to say its definitely not more friendly to us. We have all the same hoops as anyone else trying to make a reservation on their own. I will say though that all of you that complain about giving the Mouse more money commission is already built into the price. If you book with them they pocket it. If you book with an agent it goes to the agent which depending on the agent may be a small business. 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I agree that using a travel agent is almost a necessity for trying to get a reservation for certain dates at Fort Wilderness.

 

But, let's get back to the point: Why does Disney make it so hard?

 

These days, you can go on-line to any number of sites (Kayak, Tripadvisor, Priceline, Hotwire, etc.) and see availability for hotel rooms in an area where you want to visit.

 

Disney, on the other hand, intentionally blocks out dates when they have availability.  It wouldn't be so bad if they said what dates are blocked out so guests would look at other dates.  But, they don't even do that. 

 

Why all the game playing?

 

I'm sure there is some sophisticated computer program that they are using to do all of this, and it is based on metrics.  Great for them, but very unfriendly to guests.  They don't care about that, though.  As long as occupancy rates are OK - they don't need loyal return customers.  They plainly prefer the uneducated ones who will pay the going rate and accept a lower quality product.

 

Oh, and did you ever stop and wonder why all of the discount offers made by Disney exclude the Fort?  They have determined that they can make more of a profit by keeping their prices high, even if it means lower occupancy.  I think the room blocks they use are an offshoot of this- they keep the supply limited, and the demand high.  Then they can charge more.  They've got some real geniuses running the show.

 

I used to wonder why they want to almost force guests to use travel agents.  Then it dawned on me- they can pay some low percentage commission to independent contractor agents and let them field all the questions from guests and provide the services that they do. That saves Disney a ton on payroll and benefits that they don't have to pay to a dedicated staff of qualified employees. Plus, if something goes wrong, Disney can shift the blame back to the travel agent, and blame it all on them.

 

Brilliant.

 

TCD

[ftwildernessguy 778]

When my no expiration tickets are gone, so am I.

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

Just got back from looping. Less than 15 empty sites in all FH, PREF and PREM.  Only 1 in 1500, didn't go to 2000. Wouldn't consider this week a "busy" week for any reason.

[tim5055 120]

4 hours ago, ftwildernessguy said:

When my no expiration tickets are gone, so am I.

Same here.  Just before the no expiration tickets went away we purchased 2 10 day tickets each (4 tickets).  Our normal trip ends up with us in the parks 3 or maybe four days so these tickets will last at least 5 trips.  We used to do at least one trip a year but no longer.  it almost needs ot be something "special" like meeting family now.  It's just not the same as before....

[Starbuc71 162]

What a great topic. I definatley agree with everything everyone said.  I know there are numerous articles out there that state how the mouse is pushing the middle class out of Disney.  And I believe that is honestly true. Last October, I had an idea to go and book all our trips for the fort for 2016.  Obviously we just got back so I was all about the fort.  Luckily as some of you know, we live outside of Tampa so the fort was a great vacation for us, especially with both our children still under the age of 10. Since the increase in annual passes, which ours was up on the 17th of this month, we had a change of heart. We had scheduled 3 nights for MLK weekend, Presidents' Day weekend, a week in spring break, and a 4 day Memorial Day weekend trip. We enjoyed our 4 day weekend a few weeks ago, but canceled Feb. and Mays trips.  Each of those weekends with fort prices, food and what not would set us back over $700. It's just not worth it anymore.  We are going to start to state park it and show the kids what real camping is.  No Ohanas, no chef Mickey,. No fast passes and all relaxing.  The kids still want to do a week for spring break and our annual thanksgiving trip to the fort, but that's it for the fort from now on. It's just way too much money. Yes the fort is still the best campground around but the price is not becoming worth it.  Will the price increasing ever stop?  Will one day park passes be in the $150 range someday?  Will we be near the $200 range for a premium site in the near future?  We already pay close to $150 a night during peak times.  But as we all say, there is always someone will pay it.

[tim5055 120]

57 minutes ago, Starbuc71 said:

Will we be near the $200 range for a premium site in the near future?  We already pay close to $150 a night during peak times.  But as we all say, there is always someone will pay it.

 

Well, I just pulled my Disney file looking for old invoices.

 

April 1979 I was in the Tower building of the Contemporary for $65 a night

1991 Fort Wilderness price list has Partial  at $30 a night, Full hook ups at $37 a night and Preferred at $44 a night.

[LONE-STAR 370]

Just 3 years ago with AAA I had a premium site for around 65 to 70 a night.

[southernview -- Ray 25]

11 hours ago, Travisma said:

My wife was trying for a week the beginning of March (Spring Break for Hillsborough County) and it's booked solid, and she's been trying since Christmas.

 

None of the counties around Disney are off that week, and it's way to early for the Northerners Spring Break, so what gives?

 

The Northerners start hitting the beach here in Panama City Beach starting around the 12th to 15th of March.  They also may be going somewhere else this year since the city has put several new rules in place in an attempt to regain control of them. 

 

[Travisma 1,317]

4 hours ago, southernview -- Ray said:

 

Hmmm, must be the southern side of the northerners.  NY won't be out until Easter time, most of the NE states are around the same time.  I know close gets get out early.

[CJHokie 43]

11 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

  We are going to start to state park it and show the kids what real camping is.  

You are lucky, FL has some great state parks (and county)!

[shoreline99 137]

I've been reading this and trying to formulate my thoughts, so here goes.

Disney, as many have said, is a business. It's all about the $$.

They have no set ideas on how to run this place effectively and have it make money for them. They're already stripping some of the long-standing cooking amenities out of the cabins, effectively forcing people to rely more on their on-property meals, or go elsewhere. They've been cracking down on off-property rentals of campers and carts for quite some time now as well, effectively pushing it underground unless vendors are willing to pay to become 'preferred' and passing the costs on to the end users.

Prices keep going up, benefits keep going down. They are not interested in the locals that visit 6 times a year for a night or two, they are looking for the people that are wiling to come for two weeks or more. The big hits. That's part of the reason they now have more blackout dates on the Florida AP's.

See, that model works for them in California, because the parks are smaller and they rely on the CA annual passes for steady revenue streams. As much as they say DL is a destination park, it's really a regional/state attraction. They make more money off of WDW - the GLOBAL destination resort. So, of course they gear their business plan towards long-term, all-inclusive, plan-it-in-advance guest packages. Dining? Include it, for a price. Rooms and tickets? Include it and you can book your fastpasses in advance. The tent camping and site models don't work in that economic model - and, mark my words, there will likely be changes soon to how those are handled. They've already cracked down on those trying to shuffle their reservations at the fort and modify dates.

My best guess is that they're biding their time for the new FW DVC, as has been discussed here. That's a no brainer for them. The powers that be won't be sad to see the campers revolt, they will find more people to pay for the additional accommodations. FW is getting squeezed on all sides already; the four seasons, golden oak, the new WL DVC cabins - I'm sure it will continue until the bottom line is met.

More later.