Leaked River Country DVC Plans

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

This may have been discussed before but it seems like this is another sign of Disney ignoring or intentionally breaking with Walt's original idea of "leaving the real world behind".

 

Just like the MK, the Fort and River Country were set up so that you would have to leave your car and take a journey into a different world.....  train, tram, monorail, boat, etc.

 

Now it appears they just want to build bus stops and parking lots right in the middle of the attractions.  I know it makes sense dollar-wise, but do any of the current management/Imagineers see that was not the original intent?

 

I hate the new bus stops at the MK, and I will hate this parking lot at FW.....   

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Not a true line up, but I overlayed the plans onto a sattalie image of the area. I used Pioneer Hall as a reference as it is assumed it wont be moving.

 

You can get an idea of how this would look if it ever happens.

 

Also, it does appear the bus stop will take out two of the spots in the 700. Hilda will have a front row seat to the bus stop traffic.

 

 

Great job, Dave!

 

Those photos really tell the story.

 

That parking lot is HUGE!

 

This big asphalt wasteland creates a buffer for the DVC guests.

 

Doesn't affect their experience one bit.  They are oriented toward beautiful Bay Lake.  They probably won't even be able to see the parking lot from their villas.

 

The Fort gets crapped on once again.

 

TCD

[arthuruscg 34]

Part of me wishes they knew Fort history and put the parking lot by the over flow area and bought back the Railroad.

[The Troll 67]

Instead of this resort, some lake campsites and real cabins would be nice to keep the Fort "small and uncrowded".

 

I agree that would be nice. Unfortunately, though, what is nice does not always make lots of money. There's potentially many millions of dollars to be made on an RC DVC.

 

And let's all face it -- will any one of us stop going to the Fort once this DVC is built? I seriously doubt it.

 

You know I'll still be going...and I'll probably spend lots of time loitering in that DVC, if they let me in. I will also jump in that new pool thing and pretend I'm at River Country.

[CitaPita...Carmen 59]

I know it's only January, but I nominate this topic as the most depressing FF discussion of the year. 

 

Even if the new perks over at RC DVC aren't under lock and key (which, they will be), it still wouldn't be worth it to me to have a giant looming building on Fort property. Think of the size of that thing and the sheer number of people it will house. They'd have to make the campfire five times larger just to accommodate those that come over for some "authentic" campfire smores. Either that, or start charging for it as a character experience. Also, pretty sure that they'll be offering golf carts to the DVC residents, too, so that they can explore the Fort. That will certainly add some traffic to the place. Hope they expand the cart parking areas!

 

I love the Fort for the peace it gives me in such a hectic place. I don't choose the Fort because it's the cheapest option at the World. I could afford to stay over at the WL, but I would never choose that because it's not the experience I want from my vacation.

 

Edited to add:  Bottom line, the RC DVC will alter the feel of the Fort forever. Not saying I wouldn't still stay there, but it would never feel like the same place again.

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

CitaPita mentioned the campfires being crowded. 

 

I'm sure some people will go to the Forts sing along, but these plans do show a campfire:

 

 

 

I pointed out some other items of interest, I don't know about you but a campfire overlooking the lake next to a bar sounds pretty nice.

 

I know this is going to drastically change the Fort but IF it ever gets built at least its going to be very nice with lots of cool features.

 

WBI

 

 

Reminder:  These plans are from Sept. 2011 and they all say schematic these weren't finalized for construction in 2011 and its now 2014 there's no telling when or if this project will happen.
 

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

The storm sewer plan calls for a culvert under the last few sites on 700, so they will have to come out, and they'd end up being such bad sites that I doubt they would reinstall them.

Also, I have to say I've been very sceptical of this plan since we first saw the footprint many months ago. I assumed the footprint and massing model were little more than a spitballing session, one that was bound to end up in the round file because of the absurd size and impact on the Fort. But now, having seen the 250+ sheet proposal drawing and I'm convinced this is no blue-sky idea, or a back-burner project. This will be built. I fully expect the last two years have been spent working on construction drawings and that permits can't be far off. Of course, the new BBQ pavilion and new barns have to come first. Once the pavilion is done I would expect demo at RC will begin.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Part of me wishes they knew Fort history and put the parking lot by the over flow area and bought back the Railroad.

 

My heart is where yours is, but you and I both know this is wishful thinking.

 

If the idiots in charge now were in charge back then, there wouldn't even be a Fort Wilderness.

 

I agree that would be nice. Unfortunately, though, what is nice does not always make lots of money. There's potentially many millions of dollars to be made on an RC DVC.

 

And let's all face it -- will any one of us stop going to the Fort once this DVC is built? I seriously doubt it.

 

You know I'll still be going...and I'll probably spend lots of time loitering in that DVC, if they let me in. I will also jump in that new pool thing and pretend I'm at River Country.

 

But I thought you hate DVC!

 

Traitor!

 

J/K, I'm planning to be there too.

 

In fact, you can pay off our wager by buying me a drink there at the lakeside bar.

 

I know it's only January, but I nominate this topic as the most depressing FF discussion of the year. 

 

Even if the new perks over at RC DVC aren't under lock and key (which, they will be), it still wouldn't be worth it to me to have a giant looming building on Fort property. Think of the size of that thing and the sheer number of people it will house. They'd have to make the campfire five times larger just to accommodate those that come over for some "authentic" campfire smores. Either that, or start charging for it as a character experience. Also, pretty sure that they'll be offering golf carts to the DVC residents, too, so that they can explore the Fort. That will certainly add some traffic to the place. Hope they expand the cart parking areas!

 

I love the Fort for the peace it gives me in such a hectic place. I don't choose the Fort because it's the cheapest option at the World. I could afford to stay over at the WL, but I would never choose that because it's not the experience I want from my vacation.

 

Edited to add:  Bottom line, the RC DVC will alter the feel of the Fort forever. Not saying I wouldn't still stay there, but it would never feel like the same place again.

 

Great post.

 

I fear that you're right- the DVC guests will be able to enjoy all of the Fort's amenities, but it won't be reciprocal. 

 

CitaPita mentioned the campfires being crowded. 

 

I'm sure some people will go to the Forts sing along, but these plans do show a campfire:

 

 

 

I pointed out some other items of interest, I don't know about you but a campfire overlooking the lake next to a bar sounds pretty nice.

 

I know this is going to drastically change the Fort but IF it ever gets built at least its going to be very nice with lots of cool features.

 

WBI

 

 

Reminder:  These plans are from Sept. 2011 and they all say schematic these weren't finalized for construction in 2011 and its now 2014 there's no telling when or if this project will happen.

 

 

 

Great finds, WBI.

 

I didn't realize that was a fire pit.

 

And those BBQ chickees?

 

How fun would that be?

 

I wonder if they'd let me BYOGAG?

 

 

The storm sewer plan calls for a culvert under the last few sites on 700, so they will have to come out, and they'd end up being such bad sites that I doubt they would reinstall them. Also, I have to say I've been very sceptical of this plan since we first saw the footprint many months ago. I assumed the footprint and massing model were little more than a spitballing session, one that was bound to end up in the round file because of the absurd size and impact on the Fort. But now, having seen the 250+ sheet proposal drawing and I'm convinced this is no blue-sky idea, or a back-burner project. This will be built. I fully expect the last two years have been spent working on construction drawings and that permits can't be far off. Of course, the new BBQ pavilion and new barns have to come first. Once the pavilion is done I would expect demo at RC will begin.

 

I see what you're saying now.

 

You were right- as Devores pointed out- the last few outside sites on 700 are gone.

 

And I agree with you- the plans show that this was way more than pie in the sky.  They're going to do this.  The only question is when.

 

TCD

[arthuruscg 34]

Part of me wishes they knew Fort history and put the parking lot by the over flow area and bought back the Railroad.

 

 

My heart is where yours is, but you and I both know this is wishful thinking.

 

If the idiots in charge now were in charge back then, there wouldn't even be a Fort Wilderness.

 

Wait... If the Rail Road was extended to TTC or the new hub at MK, then  WL and RC would be able to pull rates that the Monorail resorts do. And the rail road fits with WL since most national park lodges were built by the rail roads.

[CitaPita...Carmen 59]

I pointed out some other items of interest, I don't know about you but a campfire overlooking the lake next to a bar sounds pretty nice.

 

I know this is going to drastically change the Fort but IF it ever gets built at least its going to be very nice with lots of cool features.

 

 

I'm actually cool with the building and new features.  It does look really nice. Especially the new restaurant options, which I would hope they wouldn't lock down for DVC only.

 

If only it wasn't going to be filled with more people, I'd be okay. But the land area of the Fort doesn't get any bigger just because it experiences a population explosion. Gone will be the days of going to Clementine Beach and being literally the only person there.

 

Of course, I'm saying this as an introvert who is highly resistant to change. :)

[CitaPita...Carmen 59]

Wait... If the Rail Road was extended to TTC or the new hub at MK, then  WL and RC would be able to pull rates that the Monorail resorts do. And the rail road fits with WL since most national park lodges were built by the rail roads.

 

That's a really good point! Fort pricing would experience a boom as well, if we were able to access it as a transportation option. I'm not going to lie, I would enjoy a train at the Fort again. So long as it doesn't blow its whistle at 8:00 a.m...This girl likes to sleep!

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

The storm sewer plan calls for a culvert under the last few sites on 700, so they will have to come out, and they'd end up being such bad sites that I doubt they would reinstall them. Also, I have to say I've been very sceptical of this plan since we first saw the footprint many months ago. I assumed the footprint and massing model were little more than a spitballing session, one that was bound to end up in the round file because of the absurd size and impact on the Fort. But now, having seen the 250+ sheet proposal drawing and I'm convinced this is no blue-sky idea, or a back-burner project. This will be built. I fully expect the last two years have been spent working on construction drawings and that permits can't be far off. Of course, the new BBQ pavilion and new barns have to come first. Once the pavilion is done I would expect demo at RC will begin.

 

I haven't seen anything that shows a drainage pipe under the 700 loop sites.

 

Here's a picture of the drainage plan that shows the proposed drainage in bold. You can see the bike path will be very close to the one site but if we've learned anything from the 600 loop expansion, its that the fort doesn't mind putting paths right up against a campsite.

 

 

Here's one showing the demo plan with no work being done to the 700 loop. 

 

As much detail as they put into this demo plan they wouldn't miss demo on two sites.

 

 

 

Here's another view, that I've added some labels to.  You can see a wetland buffer line that cuts through site 732 but that's all existing, the wetland and buffer are not changing. 

 

 

 

My heart is where yours is, but you and I both know this is wishful thinking.

 

If the idiots in charge now were in charge back then, there wouldn't even be a Fort Wilderness.

 

 

But I thought you hate DVC!

 

Traitor!

 

J/K, I'm planning to be there too.

 

In fact, you can pay off our wager by buying me a drink there at the lakeside bar.

 

Hey count me in for a drink at the lakeside bar!

 

Great finds, WBI.

 

I didn't realize that was a fire pit.

 

And those BBQ chickees?

 

How fun would that be?

 

I wonder if they'd let me BYOGAG?

I'm sure we'll find a way to sneak past the fence and BYOGAG to the BBQ chickees.

Actually we can just follow the people that will be carrying their ice chests off the buses, like they do at the Meadow Pool, you know they'll find a way to occupy those chickees all day long.

 

 

I see what you're saying now.

 

You were right- as Devores pointed out- the last few outside sites on 700 are gone.

 

And I agree with you- the plans show that this was way more than pie in the sky.  They're going to do this.  The only question is when.

 

TCD

 

I'm not seeing what ya'll are talking about on the 700 loop?

 

I'm actually cool with the building and new features.  It does look really nice. Especially the new restaurant options, which I would hope they wouldn't lock down for DVC only.

 

If only it wasn't going to be filled with more people, I'd be okay. But the land area of the Fort doesn't get any bigger just because it experiences a population explosion. Gone will be the days of going to Clementine Beach and being literally the only person there.

 

Of course, I'm saying this as an introvert who is highly resistant to change. :)

I wasn't disagreeing CitaPita, the facility is going to be great, but the extra people it will bring to the Fort amenities are going to suck.

WBI

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

Also, I have to say I've been very sceptical of this plan since we first saw the footprint many months ago. I assumed the footprint and massing model were little more than a spitballing session, one that was bound to end up in the round file because of the absurd size and impact on the Fort. But now, having seen the 250+ sheet proposal drawing and I'm convinced this is no blue-sky idea, or a back-burner project. This will be built. I fully expect the last two years have been spent working on construction drawings and that permits can't be far off. Of course, the new BBQ pavilion and new barns have to come first. Once the pavilion is done I would expect demo at RC will begin.

Typically Schematic Design Plans are 60% plans used for budgets and planning.

After everyone signs off on the SD package they move on to Development Design plans. Those are then submitted for approval.

Last comes Construction Design plans.

These Schematic Design plans are much further along than 60% it would not have taken them 2 years to move from SD to CD plans for this project.

I don't think this project went away but I do think it was delayed at one point and like everyone says its just a matter of time before they pull it off the shelf to start it up again.

I should also add that the Wilderness Way plans went as far as having a pre-construction meeting back in 2011 and that construction was never done. That's definitely an intentional delay.

WBI

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

WBI, you're right, that is a path that cuts so close to the 700 sites. That's what I get for trying to read plans on my iPhone. I'm curious as to why you think the "trailer compound" which is supposed to be built near Saratoga Springs is part of the plan set for the "Wilderness Way" project? I have noted that the compound looks a great deal like the one near the Reception Outpost. Putting two and two together (to get nine, perhaps) I have to wonder if it's part of these plans because they'll be moving the one from the Fort; leaving one to wonder why, and what might they need that space for? Anyway, I'd like to hear your ruminations on the matter.

 

I see from the plans that there will be a full-service restaurant and bar, and a quick service, and a pool bar. Here are some other cool features I found:

 

An elevation showing the fireplace and wall of windows overlooking Bay Lake

 

An interesting "boat bench" feature, with a flowing river going past.

 

 

 

And a boat and lift which will hang above the main lobby.

[devores 382]

One thing I have not heard anyone mention is the fear that this new resort will take away the best place at the fort. The DVC is taking over the settlement area of the fort. And there's a good chance it will become part of it. That means the fort could loose part of, if not all of the beach, pioneer hall, and the outpost. At best, fort residents still have access to the area but with increased crowds. The fort would not be allowed in the DVC resort but they would be allowed in the fort area.

I do love how the resort is so close to the amenities of the fort yet they have thier own amenities. Campfire, boat dock, bus stops, pools, etc. this tells me they are looking for a seperation.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Excellent posts, guys!

 

The details are amazing.

 

On the topic of theming, I note that in addition to the Grand Lodge, there are two other buildings shown on the plans that have names.

 

One is called the Boat House. It's the building that will house the arcade, fitness area, and the bars and restaurants overlooking the lake.  The west side of the building has a long deck which will overlook the River Pool.  This is what the plans show the outside of the building will look like:

 

 

 

There's a square building adjacent to the lobby which the plans call the Old River House- here's what it looks like on the outside:

 

 

Since there are details showing every floor of the proposed project, it's fun to look at what is going to be included in each building.  Check it out for yourself- you can see where the bars and restaurants will go- as well as some interesting features like a community hall (standard amenity for DVC resorts) and a roof top garden:

 

Frist Floor:

 

 

Second Floor:

 

 

Third Floor:

 

 

Fourth Floor:

 

 

Fifth Floor:

 

 

Sixth Floor:

 

 

Seventh Floor:

 

 

8th Floor:

 

 

9th Floor:

 

 

10th Floor

 

 

If you look at the 8th floor, in the area overlooking the pool, it looks like there will be two floor Grand Villas overlooking the River Pool and Bay Lake.  That would be a sweet view.

 

TCD

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

WBI, you're right, that is a path that cuts so close to the 700 sites. That's what I get for trying to read plans on my iPhone. I'm curious as to why you think the "trailer compound" which is supposed to be built near Saratoga Springs is part of the plan set for the "Wilderness Way" project? I have noted that the compound looks a great deal like the one near the Reception Outpost. Putting two and two together (to get nine, perhaps) I have to wonder if it's part of these plans because they'll be moving the one from the Fort; leaving one to wonder why, and what might they need that space for? Anyway, I'd like to hear your ruminations on the matter.

 

I see from the plans that there will be a full-service restaurant and bar, and a quick service, and a pool bar. Here are some other cool features I found:

 

An elevation showing the fireplace and wall of windows overlooking Bay Lake

Very cool finds Shannon!

They are proposing some really nice features with this project! 

I'm not positive on the trailer compound, because it seems like there are much closer places to put the construction trailers. I vaguely remember reading about the compound when they applied for their SFWMD permit back in 2011, but I think it just described it as construction support trailers. I guess Disney told them this is where they could setup with no closer option?  The plans label the new trailers as "WDI" and "GC" (assume general contractor) so I don't think they are meant to replace the trailers near the reception outpost.  Plus that's where they operate golf cart rentals out of so they would need to relocate that also.

Here's a current aerial of the trailer compound, very different from the plans:

 

 

WBI

[PoorGABoy 4]

This is a great read. So great, it has made it over to that other site ("V"- the site not to be mentioned).....

 

quote from "V".....(Resort Section)
"A couple of years ago I posted about a rumor that FW would have DVC Villas built along Clementine Beach on Bay Lake near (RIP) River Country. The rumor came up again in the form of recently "released" detailed plans from 2011-2012. The discussion and plans are located on the Fort Fiends website in the category of Disney and Fort Construction and posted by Tri-Circle-D."

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

This is a great read. So great, it has made it over to that other site ("V"- the site not to be mentioned).....

 

quote from "V".....(Resort Section)

"A couple of years ago I posted about a rumor that FW would have DVC Villas built along Clementine Beach on Bay Lake near (RIP) River Country. The rumor came up again in the form of recently "released" detailed plans from 2011-2012. The discussion and plans are located on the Fort Fiends website in the category of Disney and Fort Construction and posted by Tri-Circle-D."

 

LOL.

 

At least someone over there knows where to come for the straight dope.

 

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Those boat seats posted by Shannon are interesting.

 

I saw them on the plans.  It looks like they're on the third floor in the middle of the lobby.  I didn't notice the detail showing water underneath them.  Is that what this drawing shows?:

 

 

So, it there a river flowing under the lobby, and those boat seats?  Is that what I'm seeing here?  And it terminates in a waterfall which cascades into the River Pool:

 

 

This is all very cool, but still very similar to the spring and waterfall at Wilderness Lodge.

 

The boat and gears remind me of the cotton mill at Port Orleans Riverside.

 

But, this is definitely in keeping with a River theme, not a Pioneer/Wilderness theme.

 

TCD

[devores 382]

What would be great is if they built the resort around the old RC and resseructed it as the pool area for the resort.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

These plans are actually much nicer than I ever imagined.  This stands to become one of the most complete DVC resorts in WDW if built.  Most of the existing DVC's are simply villas that rely on their home resort for many of the amenities for their members.  That is why I could never understand what the draw would be for selling memberships to a Fort DVC.  The Fort, for as much as we all love it, does not have the types of amenities that your typical DVC buyer desires.  But these plans call for a complete, standalone resort that happens to be a DVC resort.  I would love to stay at this resort, and it wouldn't even be necessary to enter the "Fort Proper"; although that would offer additional amenities above and beyond what lies within the DVC, such as horseback riding, carriage rides, the Settlement area including Pioneer Hall, etc.  

 

I do agree that the parking lot could be better placed from the standpoint on its impact to the Fort.  But I also believe it will be screened as best as possible, and is probably there for a reason.  And I'm not happy about the impacts to the Fort from a crowd standpoint, and losing the barn area which is one of my favorite early morning peaceful spots.  But overall, this looks very nice and I bet that, if built, it will be a wonderful addition to the Bay Lake resort area.  

 

I have to say....well done to whomever planned this resort.  

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

What would be great is if they built the resort around the old RC and resseructed it as the pool area for the resort.

 

Man, that would be nice, wouldn't it?

 

For enough money, it could be done.  But, I guess it's easier and cheaper to rip it all out and start from scratch.

 

These plans are actually much nicer than I ever imagined.  This stands to become one of the most complete DVC resorts in WDW if built.  Most of the existing DVC's are simply villas that rely on their home resort for many of the amenities for their members.  That is why I could never understand what the draw would be for selling memberships to a Fort DVC.  The Fort, for as much as we all love it, does not have the types of amenities that your typical DVC buyer desires.  But these plans call for a complete, standalone resort that happens to be a DVC resort.  I would love to stay at this resort, and it wouldn't even be necessary to enter the "Fort Proper"; although that would offer additional amenities above and beyond what lies within the DVC, such as horseback riding, carriage rides, the Settlement area including Pioneer Hall, etc.  

 

I do agree that the parking lot could be better placed from the standpoint on its impact to the Fort.  But I also believe it will be screened as best as possible, and is probably there for a reason.  And I'm not happy about the impacts to the Fort from a crowd standpoint, and losing the barn area which is one of my favorite early morning peaceful spots.  But overall, this looks very nice and I bet that, if built, it will be a wonderful addition to the Bay Lake resort area.  

 

I have to say....well done to whomever planned this resort.  

 

Did you bump your head or something?

 

Just kidding- good post.

 

One thing to note is that while the Fort is losing the current barn, there is a pretty nice new barn and blacksmith building which will be located at the Outpost. It won't be quite the same, but it will still be quiet around there in the morning.

 

TCD

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

One thought re: lots more people

 

While that will be true, it may not end up really feeling that way.

 

I'm thinking about when we go over to the Contemporary.  Even since adding BLT never really feels crowded - even in the food court, shops, etc.

 

Ditto with Wilderness Lodge.

 

Seeing the size and scope of this, there is a lot of room for all those people to be dispersed throughout, that's when they're not off elsewhere around WDW.

 

Hopefully with all that's built into this - pools, common areas, etc. - the impact to the # of people floating around the rest of the Fort won't be significant.

 

That said, the one thing I can see this possibly having a big impact on is golf cart traffic around the holidays.  (eek)

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

One thought re: lots more people

 

While that will be true, it may not end up really feeling that way.

 

I'm thinking about when we go over to the Contemporary.  Even since adding BLT never really feels crowded - even in the food court, shops, etc.

 

Ditto with Wilderness Lodge.

 

Seeing the size and scope of this, there is a lot of room for all those people to be dispersed throughout, that's when they're not off elsewhere around WDW.

 

Hopefully with all that's built into this - pools, common areas, etc. - the impact to the # of people floating around the rest of the Fort won't be significant.

 

That said, the one thing I can see this possibly having a big impact on is golf cart traffic around the holidays.  (eek)

 

Good point.

 

You know what's not going to be quiet, though?

 

That giant new Backyard BBQ pavilion there behind the 100/200 loops.

 

We haven't talked about that much- but that Backyard BBQ can be loud!

 

TCD