swimmarz 72 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I just got my pop up home, and before we left the dealer/ campground the guy in the site next to me was looking over the trailer and said to replace my new tires as soon as possible. they are Westlake Super ST 185/80 R13 load range D tires (1710lbs) I cant find anything definitive on the tires (super ST) , but when i got to westlake website i find the tire size under the listing for STZC and it has almost identical specshttp://www.westlaketire.com/en/trailer-tires/375-stzcSize, PlyRate, Tread Depth, Load Index & Speed RatingStd. RimSection WidthOverall DiameterMax. LoadSingle Max. LoadDual Max. LoadMax. ST185/80R13 8 - - 99/95 5.00J 184 7.24 626 24.65 - - 775 1709 690 1521 450 65 by those specs, It looks like I had a load index of 99 and a speed rating at 95 I am just trying to understand tires and speeds and such as i want to be 100% safe If they truly are a 95 mph speed rated tire, then i feel safe knowing that as i wont go faster than 65 and they have the right load range as my trailer fully loaded is 3300 LBS but i assume its more in the 2750 range as it sitsGVWR is 3292hitch weight is 292UVW 2473CCC 800 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parrothead7368 aka Norm 101 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Why did he tell you to get new tires if these are already new? I'm confused and the speed rating on most trailer tires are 65MPH in Load range D. The tire should say max speed on it. Best Regards,Norm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmarz 72 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Why did he tell you to get new tires if these are already new? I'm confused and the speed rating on most trailer tires are 65MPH in Load range D. The tire should say max speed on it. Best Regards,NormI assume he had a bad experience with them... Its unnerving to hear that your new trailer may have bad tires....as for a speed rating on them, I have yet to find that... ill keep looking at the tire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parrothead7368 aka Norm 101 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've been having this same conversation on Facebook with a group. They are all wanting to get new tires because the ones they have on their trailer are made in China and they hear more complaints about Chinese made tires than any other. You know why?? Because almost all trailer tires are made in China. The only one I know that aren't are Maxxis and they are made in Taiwan. I have had many different trailer tires, Loadstars, Carriers, Towmax, Goodyear and now I have Grand Ride Power Touring. All made in China, and haven't had a problem with any of them. I use the proper inflation, I cover them when not in use, proper MPH and I don't overload them, they have all been fine.I would never put a $30 tire on my trailer, but if my manufacturer thinks they are ok for my trailer, than I would try them again.Do manufacturers have bad tires, sure they do, ALL manufacturers have bad tires but you only hear about the bad ones, never the good ones. I bet for every complaint there are a 100 happy people you don't hear a peep out of. I am going to guess that the MPH is 65 on yours and proper inflation is 65# cold. That is the norm for that size, load range etc. Best Regards,Norm djsamuel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith_h 420 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 There should be a sticker on the side of the trailer that lists the proper inflation pressure for the tires on your trailer. For my trailer and tires the inflation pressure is 50 lbs. Chinese branded tires do not have a good reputation and anecdotally seem to have a higher failure rate than non-Chinese tires and those made for the major US tire makers. I say anecdotally as I have never seen any reports to prove or disprove this. It's just the greater number blowout complaints on RV boards seem to be for Chinese branded tires over the others. I think some of it has to do with the trailer manufacturers spec'ing tires at the bare minimum of the load range which doesn't allow much room for the trailer owner to make mistakes like slightly overloading the trailer or not being real good about maintaining the exact tire pressure. Maxxis have a good reputation and are made in Taiwan and Thailand. Some people say although the Goodyear Marathon production was moved to China they are still the same quality as when they were made in the US. I have Westlake Super ST's on my trailer and so far haven't had a problem with about 4,000 miles on them. The tread is wearing well and there is no sign of drying out or rot. I am planning to replace them with Maxxis sometime this winter at which time there will be between 5K-6K miles on them. This is mainly for my own peace of mind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmarz 72 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 thanks for that feedback Keith and Norm.Ill keep that in mind! edit- I went out and looked at the spare as it still had the sticker on the tread Westlake ST185/80R13STZCLoad Range D/8PR Tubeless92730barcode So they are 8 ply tires, Load range D for 1710 lbs ( website says 1709 Lbs)the website calls the load index of 99 = 1709 lbs when converted via tirerack the website calls the speed rating at 95MPH!, I would never test that and ill keep it at 65 max Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bhall 115 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Even the Maxxis tires blowout. We had one go on one of the work trailer and the trailer was loaded, it was 95 degrees out and although I can't prove it, the guy never does 65. Most likely was doing 75mph. When I take a trailer out I make sure it's got max cold pressure and I keep it at 65mph max. All ST tires are rated http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=219 Special Trailer (ST) Tire Speed RatingsIndustry standards dictate tires with the ST designation are speed rated to 65 MPH (104 km/h) under normal inflation and load conditions.However Goodyear Marathon and Power King Towmax STR tires featuring the ST size designation may be used at speeds between 66 and 75 mph (106 and 121 km/h) by increasing their cold inflation pressure by 10 psi (69 kPa) above the recommended pressure for the rated maximum load.Do not exceed the wheel's maximum rated pressure. If the maximum pressure for the wheel prohibits the increase of air pressure, then maximum speed must be restricted to 65 mph (104 km/h).The cold inflation pressure must not exceed 10 psi (69 kPa) beyond the inflation specified for the maximum load of the tire.Increasing the inflation pressure by 10 psi (69 kPa) does not provide any additional load carrying capacity. http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTrailerTireFacts.do SpeedAll "ST" tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph.As heat builds up, the tire's structure starts to disintegrate and weaken.The load carrying capacity gradually decreases as the heat and stresses generated by higher speed increases. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bhall 115 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As for your Westlake tires, they are not known for quality on the internet forums. http://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/4-tire-companies-to-avoid Brands of Tires to Avoid at All CostsIn recent years, many Chinese tire manufacturers have come under attack for making substandard and unsafe tires available for sale in the United States. Furthermore, some Chinese manufacturers have been the subject of forced recalls by many state Attorney Generals and the Federal Trade Commission. While there are many variations of Chinese import tires that have come under attack, companies that have been the subject of forced government recalls include:Westlake TiresAKS TiresTelluride tiresCompass TiresAll of these brands of cheap tires are made by the China-based Hangzhou Zhongce Rubber Company; furthermore, it is alleged that these tires lack even the most basic of safety features such as gum strips which are a rubber feature that helps prevent steel belts inside the tire from separating or damaging the rubber. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmarz 72 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As for your Westlake tires, they are not known for quality on the internet forums. http://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/4-tire-companies-to-avoidBrands of Tires to Avoid at All CostsIn recent years, many Chinese tire manufacturers have come under attack for making substandard and unsafe tires available for sale in the United States. Furthermore, some Chinese manufacturers have been the subject of forced recalls by many state Attorney Generals and the Federal Trade Commission. While there are many variations of Chinese import tires that have come under attack, companies that have been the subject of forced government recalls include:Westlake TiresAKS TiresTelluride tiresCompass TiresAll of these brands of cheap tires are made by the China-based Hangzhou Zhongce Rubber Company; furthermore, it is alleged that these tires lack even the most basic of safety features such as gum strips which are a rubber feature that helps prevent steel belts inside the tire from separating or damaging the rubber.here comes that uneasy feeling again.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bhall 115 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 That forced gov't recall would have me tasting bile....and shopping for new tires if I had the funds to do so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith_h 420 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The recall mentioned in the article was from 2007 on tires made between 2002 and 2006 that were light truck tires. I couldn't find any new recalls between then and now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ftwildernessguy 778 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Primary reasons for trailer tire failure are under inflation, overloading trailer and excessive speed. I don't care where they were made. Personally, I have seen more tire failures on the side of the road on 5th wheels than any other trailer type, and my bet is it is because it is one or more of these reasons. I have towed for over 30 years and, knock on wood, have never had a tire failure on my trailer. I use a tire monitor, which I highly recommend, check my wheel and tire temps at every stop with an IR thermometer (cheap at Pep Boys) and keep my speed down to 55-60 mph. I don't care who passes me. I swap out my tires every 6 years. Trailer tires will time out before they wear out. I don't buy into the LT tires are better than ST tires crap. I have read as much as I can the information provided by the major tire manufacturers. I also have listened to Larry, and there is no greater tire authority than him. IMHO. djsamuel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bhall 115 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 FWG,Lots of people say check tire temps, which is great. My problem and question is what temps do you look for before you get worried. Nobody seems to agree on what the range is for safe temps and what temp do you watch out for regarding potential problems. As for LT tires, imo the attraction is the higher speed rating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ftwildernessguy 778 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The temps will vary depending on the ambient temp. I look mainly for a significant difference in temp between wheels which would indicate a problem. Same with my tire monitoring system. Those tires can run hot, but if I see one increasing much faster than the others, then we got a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
keith_h 420 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 As I said above I think part of the problem is the RV manufacturers use tires at the very end of their rating to save money. The tires on my TT are rated at 1764 lbs each. The trailer with a GVW of 3600 lbs it is cutting it close with a max weight on both tires of 3528 lbs. Assuming a 10% tongue weight of 360 lbs that is around 3200 lbs on the tires. Not much room for a mistake that overloads them. I keep the trailer around 3000 lbs max so am not that worried about overloading. I also stick to the speed limit or 65 mph which ever is slower when towing. djsamuel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
djsamuel 322 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The biggest issue with ST tires in general (beyond improper inflation and inspection) is overloading. When you look at the GVWR on many trailers and then look at the weight limit for the tires, it is appalling how close the tires come to being overloaded. In fact, I've seen some cases where the GVWR is based on axle capacity, and not the tires; and would result in the tires being overloaded before hitting the GVWR. The tires on my camper have about 6,000 miles on them. I had one replaced under warranty due to a slit in the sidewall that was caused by a manufacturing defect. They are load range C tires (1760 pounds). With 4 tires, that means the tires could handle 7,040 pounds. However, the dry weight of the trailer is 3500 pounds and the GVWR is 5,000 pounds. I weigh in loaded at about 4,400 pounds. Therefore, the tires are running at about 62% of capacity. That is what gives me peace of mind. When I do replace the tires, I plan on sticking with ST tires, although I will go with either Maxxis, Carlisle Radials, the Goodyear Marathons, or another more well known brand. The brand that came with my camper (Vale) is an unknown brand as far as I am concerned and I would like to replace with a company that at least I've heard of. But in the mean time, I haven't had any issues once the one tire was replaced when new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ftwildernessguy 778 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Just put new Marathons on mine this year. Supposedly the ST tires have more flex to the sidewalks, and if you've ever looked at a tandem axle like mine back into a tight spot, you know just how much those sidewalks can flex. djsamuel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ftwildernessguy 778 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Just put new Marathons on mine this year. Supposedly the ST tires have more flex to the sidewalks, and if you've ever looked at a tandem axle like mine back into a tight spot, you know just how much those sidewalks can flex.That's supposed to be sidewalls, not sidewalks. Damn auto correct. Who wants flex in their sidewalks? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
djsamuel 322 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Just put new Marathons on mine this year. Supposedly the ST tires have more flex to the sidewalks, and if you've ever looked at a tandem axle like mine back into a tight spot, you know just how much those sidewalks can flex.This is true, they are designed so that they can WITHSTAND more flex. in other words, they have stiffer sidewalls. If you ever try to install an ST tire onto a rim, the difference is amazing. I struggled with one for hours until I finally gave in and drove to a tire shop. The guy there asked me if I tried it myself and when I told him yes, he laughed and said, "These tires even strain our machines." They are much more difficult than a car tire, and he wasn't exaggerating. Like you said, it is amazing how much those tires scuff and flex when backing in a tight turn. It leaves nice marks when backing into my driveway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bhall 115 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 My 5er has a GVWR of 8215lbsGAWR (Each Axle) is 3500lbsCombined Cargo rating 1215lbs leaving a "dry weight" of 7,000lbs which is coincidentally my Total Axle Rating.My 205/75R15C tires are rated at 1820lbs which are brand new Carlisles (which made the 2k mile round trip to the Fort.)My 15" Wheels are rated for 1820lbs and a Max PSI of 55lbs (Stamped on the inside) - Total Rating of wheels/Tires is 7280lbs so at least their higher then the axles.My dry hitch weight is also 1215lbs (About 18% of the dry weight) which is most likely close to 1450lbs loaded up for camping. So I figure with the hitch weight being supported by the truck, I'm still very freaking close to my axle ratings and I don't like it nor am I comfortable with it. The camper isn't worth putting new axles underneath of it and larger hubs & wheels (Current hubs only have 5 Lugs). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmarz 72 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 wow, thanks for all the feedback, it looks like I may have opened a can of worms I think my dad has a spare tire from his high-lo ( sold it) and it may be a 14 inch tire, once i finish cleaning the garage out so i can fit the popup in there and get code enforcement off my but( cant park it outside for more than 3 days) Ill see if i can fit the 14 inch tire.If it fits and has at least a 1 inch clearance front to back, i may opt for the swap when funds become available. With the 14 inch tire, even in a load range C I wold be adding 50-100 Lbs capacity over what i already have. As for the 5er issue, the guy that warned me at the dealer/campground was on his 6th 5er and we were discussing tongue weights and overall weights, Turns out my pop up, at Max weight, was still less than his tongue weight, he said his was 3500 Lbs, and the over all trailer was 11,000+ empty! Then again he had a big ol Ford Super Duty, and it was a toy hauler 5er, really nice.... the guy on the other side of me couldn't be bothered to join the discussion, he was in a brand new Class A diesel pusher with a tag axel and id ball park his rig was more expensive than my house.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Specularius 102 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I had a Westlake tire blow out on me last week on my way home from the Fort. I have a TST 507 tire monitor. I was driving 63 mph, tire pressures and temps were the same on all four tires but one decided to spread itself all over the interstate. Less than 4 thousand miles since I picked it up from the dealer. I now have 4 Michelin tires. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ftwildernessguy 778 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Larry says always keep your tires covered when your camper is not being used and in storage. IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmarz 72 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I had a Westlake tire blow out on me last week on my way home from the Fort. I have a TST 507 tire monitor. I was driving 63 mph, tire pressures and temps were the same on all four tires but one decided to spread itself all over the interstate. Less than 4 thousand miles since I picked it up from the dealer. I now have 4 Michelin tires.what kind of trailer?was it a 5er? I hear more 5ers have blowouts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stacktester 78 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Like ftwilderness guy said. Go to rv.net and look up larryjm and ask away. Tons of knowledge I tell ya. I wouldn't even think about fwg's advice over Larry's. A legend. Seriously I'm with Jim on the 60 mph. I've had damaging blow outs. Put 16" tires on instead of the factory 15s which hold more weight and tire pressure. Go about 62 tops and no issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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