twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 11 hours ago, ImDownWithDisney said: Very sorry you had problems. Unfortunately, most rv' s are built inferior. I own a metal fabrication business, and if we turned out work like the rv industry does we'd be out of business. When I look at the frames of most new rv's I'm astounded at the lack of quality. Thank you. It (the quality of builds), is so frustrating..isn't it? If a manufacturer is going to skimp on quality, let's not skimp on the big/safety things. Our last rig was a 2015 Jayco (before they were bought out) and the feel of everything is the trailer, compared to this new Keystone Cougar, was noticeable. This newer one really feels like it's put together with glue and staples. When we made the switch, the primary reason was to find a nice living room and lots of windows. The best floorplan for that (with room for kiddos) was a mid-bunk floorplan and those have only been out a few years, or we would have bought a 5th wheel that was 5-10 years old. When repairing the weld, the fab shop pointed this out on the frame. He explained, that he believe the frame was previously repaired as he's never seen one leave the line looking like this. What are your thoughts? Thing is...I've said, since the first month of ownership, that I thought something felt strange with the frame. Little things: how a cabinet closes, a dip in the floor, we've had problems for months with the front door aligning right so we have to slam it to close it, the smaller slide above the failed weld went off line a few months ago and that slide was rubbing into the wall... things like that. 11 hours ago, CCIntrigue...aka Gwen said: Wow. The Lord surely graced you with His protection throughout this. Happy to hear you were satisfied with Coach-Net, since that's who we use. Yes, His mercies were great. Another Fiend (Todd) was awesome and pointed out something from the pictures that I posted on FB, that I had missed. This is the gas (propane) line that runs back to the fridge. Thankfully, it did not puncture the line, but SO thankful to Todd for pointing it out as I completely missed it when inspecting the unit. How awesome that God stopped it from puncturing the line?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duane 150 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Hey Friend! I have following along since you left GA (on this TR of course)! I am loving the report so far and would love to do the same thing one day. You continue to be my HERO with your courage to step out and take on a trip like this with you and the kiddos... I feel your pain around your "break down" event... We felt the same way last year broke down on the side of 417 in Orlando waiting for the tow truck to arrive. Can' wait to hear more of your adventures! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 56 minutes ago, Duane said: Hey Friend! I have following along since you left GA (on this TR of course)! I am loving the report so far and would love to do the same thing one day. You continue to be my HERO with your courage to step out and take on a trip like this with you and the kiddos... I feel your pain around your "break down" event... We felt the same way last year broke down on the side of 417 in Orlando waiting for the tow truck to arrive. Can' wait to hear more of your adventures! How the heck are you?! I remember your break-down...ugh! Appreciate that I'm your hero, LOL, but really... it's not a big deal. Once you hit the road, so much is really familiar: your truck, your rig, your family, the truck stops and (of course) the Walmarts What changes, is the scenery and that's AWESOME. So far, both cross country trips, were awesome experiences. Makes me realize, just how much there is (in our own country) that I want to see. When do y'all head back to the Fort? Hope to get to see you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WannaBeImagineer 98 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Holy smokes, sorry to hear about that damage! I agree with you and everyone else about the quality of these rvs they really do just throw them together. I've noticed so many quality issues on our Cougar but luckily no major problems yet. The problem is these campers sale as fast as they can put them together and I think most people don't realize what their getting. So big question, are their any brands left that turn out some good quality campers? Oh I almost forgot, that definitely looks like they made a repair to your frame, or they knew that frame was weak at that point so they added some plate to strengthen it instead of up sizing the frame. Either way they took the cheap way. So you were able to that all taken care of in one day? The tow and repair? That's pretty great if you did. Did you hang-out at the fab shop watching them and then tow it back that evening? Just curious because I would probably sit and watch them lol. WBI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ImDownWithDisney 342 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said: Thank you. It (the quality of builds), is so frustrating..isn't it? If a manufacturer is going to skimp on quality, let's not skimp on the big/safety things. Our last rig was a 2015 Jayco (before they were bought out) and the feel of everything is the trailer, compared to this new Keystone Cougar, was noticeable. This newer one really feels like it's put together with glue and staples. When we made the switch, the primary reason was to find a nice living room and lots of windows. The best floorplan for that (with room for kiddos) was a mid-bunk floorplan and those have only been out a few years, or we would have bought a 5th wheel that was 5-10 years old. When repairing the weld, the fab shop pointed this out on the frame. He explained, that he believe the frame was previously repaired as he's never seen one leave the line looking like this. What are your thoughts? Thing is...I've said, since the first month of ownership, that I thought something felt strange with the frame. Little things: how a cabinet closes, a dip in the floor, we've had problems for months with the front door aligning right so we have to slam it to close it, the smaller slide above the failed weld went off line a few months ago and that slide was rubbing into the wall... things like that. Yes, His mercies were great. Another Fiend (Todd) was awesome and pointed out something from the pictures that I posted on FB, that I had missed. This is the gas (propane) line that runs back to the fridge. Thankfully, it did not puncture the line, but SO thankful to Todd for pointing it out as I completely missed it when inspecting the unit. How awesome that God stopped it from puncturing the line?! I've seen a lot of these Lippert frames with mods like that. They are bad about cracking above the spring hangers. The hanger puts a lot of flex into the I-beam in a way it is not designed to take. IMHO, the way to do it right is to box the beam in on both sides with plate. One huge reason I haven't bought a newer toyhauler is frame quality. Our KZ (now made by Thor) has a frame made of stacked rectangular tubing. It's way better than an I-beam frame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ImDownWithDisney 342 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, WannaBeImagineer said: Holy smokes, sorry to hear about that damage! I agree with you and everyone else about the quality of these rvs they really do just throw them together. I've noticed so many quality issues on our Cougar but luckily no major problems yet. The problem is these campers sale as fast as they can put them together and I think most people don't realize what their getting. So big question, are their any brands left that turn out some good quality campers? Oh I almost forgot, that definitely looks like they made a repair to your frame, or they knew that frame was weak at that point so they added some plate to strengthen it instead of up sizing the frame. Either way they took the cheap way. So you were able to that all taken care of in one day? The tow and repair? That's pretty great if you did. Did you hang-out at the fab shop watching them and then tow it back that evening? Just curious because I would probably sit and watch them lol. WBI Niche manufacturers like New Horizons, Spacecraft, Sundowner, etc still turn out exceptional quality, but they are pricey. I've wanted to get under a Grand Design 5'er but haven't seen one on a lot yet. I've heard good things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, WannaBeImagineer said: Holy smokes, sorry to hear about that damage! I agree with you and everyone else about the quality of these rvs they really do just throw them together. I've noticed so many quality issues on our Cougar but luckily no major problems yet. The problem is these campers sale as fast as they can put them together and I think most people don't realize what their getting. So big question, are their any brands left that turn out some good quality campers? Oh I almost forgot, that definitely looks like they made a repair to your frame, or they knew that frame was weak at that point so they added some plate to strengthen it instead of up sizing the frame. Either way they took the cheap way. So you were able to that all taken care of in one day? The tow and repair? That's pretty great if you did. Did you hang-out at the fab shop watching them and then tow it back that evening? Just curious because I would probably sit and watch them lol. WBI We pulled into Catalina State Park, mid-afternoon on Sunday. Took Sunday evening and all of Monday to get things set-up and ready. Tow came early Tuesday morning and we were on the road by about 3p on Tuesday. Once the boys at the fab shop inspected it and determined that the axles and tires were good and that all they needed, was to weld on new brackets...I opted to take the kids to lunch and gas up, instead of hoovering over the welder. The thought was tempting however and if I hadn't of had our kiddos, I probably would have stayed 36 minutes ago, ImDownWithDisney said: I've seen a lot of these Lippert frames with mods like that. They are bad about cracking above the spring hangers. The hanger puts a lot of flex into the I-beam in a way it is not designed to take. IMHO, the way to do it right is to box the beam in on both sides with plate. One huge reason I haven't bought a newer toyhauler is frame quality. Our KZ (now made by Thor) has a frame made of stacked rectangular tubing. It's way better than an I-beam frame. Nice to know this 32 minutes ago, ImDownWithDisney said: Niche manufacturers like New Horizons, Spacecraft, Sundowner, etc still turn out exceptional quality, but they are pricey. I've wanted to get under a Grand Design 5'er but haven't seen one on a lot yet. I've heard good things. We considered a Grand Design. Pricey, but we liked the feel of it. Problem was the cargo capacity: it was silly low. Made no sense as it was a 5th wheel with bunks (so you know at least 3 or 4 people will be in the rig) and the cargo capacity was under 1200#. Heck. Fill your water tank and you've got very little left for food, clothes and basement storage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy and Grandma 739 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Problem is LIPPERT is about the only "frame game" left in town and very few manufacture's make their own. JAYCO, HIGHLAND RIDGE as well as GRAND DESIGN use them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, Grumpy and Grandma said: Problem is LIPPERT is about the only "frame game" left in town and very few manufacture's make their own. JAYCO, HIGHLAND RIDGE as well as GRAND DESIGN use them. Lippert seems to make a lot of different components (i.e. frames, awning arms, pin box, suspension, etc)..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 I'm in crazy late but in! How beautiful! I really want to do a trip out West. So glad your damage wasn't more serious! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 12 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said: Thankful for our Freightliner chassis! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 17 hours ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said: I'm in crazy late but in! How beautiful! I really want to do a trip out West. So glad your damage wasn't more serious! Don't know that I could say, enough good things about the SW. We were very blessed though and had great weather. Plus, I did not see one snake (okay, one slithered under a rock as were were hiking at Dinosaur State Park), scorpion or tarantula. I was terrified of running into those creepy things. Without those sightings, I was surprised how much I enjoyed the scenery. Honestly, I would drive back tomorrow if I could. Then, we came back to the "forest" of Atlanta (mercy it is green here!!) and the humidity... and then I REALLY enjoyed the SW Don't get me wrong, I like green... but our neighborhood is a hot mess of old growth trees and bushes; I immediately felt claustrophobic and the allergies kicked back in for our kiddos. Yuck. We are so thankful too (on the rig). I really could have been, so much worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duane 150 Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 22 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said: How the heck are you?! I remember your break-down...ugh! Appreciate that I'm your hero, LOL, but really... it's not a big deal. Once you hit the road, so much is really familiar: your truck, your rig, your family, the truck stops and (of course) the Walmarts What changes, is the scenery and that's AWESOME. So far, both cross country trips, were awesome experiences. Makes me realize, just how much there is (in our own country) that I want to see. When do y'all head back to the Fort? Hope to get to see you! We are doing well! Ashleigh just graduated from college and is looking for a J.O.B. So far after our breakdown, the MH has managed to continue to run very well. I am hoping that you have the same experience and you guys have no more issues with your rig. We are headed back to the Fort in September. We are playing the role of ambassador/tour guide for some friends we work with in the Children's Ministry at our church. They are bringing down their kids and grandkids. I'm sure our paths will cross somewhere down the road! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveInTN 3,247 Posted June 1, 2018 Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, twiceblessed....nacole said: Then, we came back to the "forest" of Atlanta (mercy it is green here!!) and the humidity... and then I REALLY enjoyed the SW Don't get me wrong, I like green... but our neighborhood is a hot mess of old growth trees and bushes; I immediately felt claustrophobic and the allergies kicked back in for our kiddos. Yuck. I know what you mean. We came back from Florida a week ago and I was shocked at how green Tennessee is this time of year. You would think Florida would be lush and green but it really isn't. But like you said....allergies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, Duane said: We are doing well! Ashleigh just graduated from college and is looking for a J.O.B. So far after our breakdown, the MH has managed to continue to run very well. I am hoping that you have the same experience and you guys have no more issues with your rig. We are headed back to the Fort in September. We are playing the role of ambassador/tour guide for some friends we work with in the Children's Ministry at our church. They are bringing down their kids and grandkids. I'm sure our paths will cross somewhere down the road! Mercy... college. How is that possible. Too fast. Congrats on that though, daddy! Have a great time with your friends; hopefully we will get a chance to see you, at some point 32 minutes ago, DaveInTN said: I know what you mean. We came back from Florida a week ago and I was shocked at how green Tennessee is this time of year. You would think Florida would be lush and green but it really isn't. But like you said....allergies. Yes. The allergies are rough in this area. Hit our youngest really hard this year...poor little man Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted June 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 Oh my gosh...okay. Just started going through our pictures at Zion and I had HUNDREDS on my little iPhone. I had to stop picking ones to upload to Photobucket So, here we go... We left Tucson, Tuesday afternoon (April 24th). The push was our reservations at Zion (which was 580 miles away) that started the next day. I had stalked the reservation site for weeks, trying to get a spot at Watchmen Campground inside Zion National Park. This is one of the NP, that has sites that will actually fit a big rig (we are 40' but I would not try any larger). The sites were 30 amp electric only, but potable water was available with a very short walk. And they had a very nice dump station. Price was only $30/night. When planning this trip, I didn't want to go, if I couldn't stay at Watchmen Campground. I had heard, too many good things about it. I was THRILLED when I finally got a spot. Over-the-moon excited. Once this spot was reserved, I started planning the full trip. As for Tucson to Zion, we stopped overnight at a Cracker Barrel South of Vegas. Zion National Park is amazing. Flat out, amazing. The scenery is beautiful (something not fully depicted by my simple pics) and the weather for our trip was absolutely perfect. Dry and 80-90 the entire visit. We had 6 nights at the park. One downside (I thought), was that they have no showers onsite. At any of the bathhouses. The town of Springdale is just a few minutes walk from the CGs (ZNP has 2 or 3 campgrounds, but Watchmen was the only one with electric that would fit our larger rig). I believe the price was $4 for a 5 minute shower. The town of Springdale is very small, but there are still several restaurants and shops. There are also a couple of full hook-up campgrounds either in the town of Springdale or just before. I had brought jugs for both potable water and grey tank disposal, so we did just fine with electric only. Oh... and the dry climate?! Awesome for drying clothes on the rack outside! You put something wet outside to dry and it's dry in an hour! It was crazy awesome! Not like the Fort, where you hang your pool towels out to "dry" and they stay damp all week Our loop at Watchmen, was loop A. This was the best loop as not only did this loop have paved parking pads, but they had put down new rock for your table and fire pit area... plus, this loop was the closet to the Visitor's Center. We had spot A25. It was positioned between two bathhouses (or maybe I should say restrooms, since there were no showers?); potable water was located at each restroom. The walk to the Visitor's Center was maybe 5 minutes. The walk, to the little bridge that took you over to the city of Springdale, was maybe 7 minutes. It's very quiet at Watchmen. The mornings and evenings are awesome. The way the light hits the canyon walls, as the sun rises and sets: breathtaking. There were mule deer everywhere and they were not afraid of people. They did, however, find Simon our pup....to be very interesting. That was quite hilarious. There is a town called Hurricane, about 15-20 minutes from the campground; there you'll find a very nice Walmart and some other stores. A little farther out, is a larger town/small city called St. George. Everything is there, including a Costco. The kids and I ventured out that way one day and hiked at the Red Cliffs National Conservation Area. We found a nice little slot canyon there... it was stunning. Zion National has a very nice bus system that stops several times to let off for hikes (a couple of these hikes are wheelchair friendly). They have one trail, that allows for dogs and bikes. The Visitor's Center is impressive. The park can get very, very busy. I had intentionally scheduled our trip, before peak season as I had heard how busy the park gets. Even during our visit, the crowds were strong on the weekend. In the middle of the park, one of the stops is at the lodge. It's a small hotel/resort, with an amazing setting. There is a large grassy lawn that people can bring food to picnic on. There is also a small restaurant/grill, where you can order food from. Sorry, I didn't get pricing. From a quick glance, it looked like people were eating things such as pizza, sandwiches, salads... those tip of bar/grill items. The kids and I were at Zion, for 3 nights before Tom joined up with us. He flew into Vegas and originally our plan was to go down and get him, but then we took a look at the time and gas involved and realized that we'd be better off paying for him to ride a shuttle up. He was able to get a ride up to Springdale (right next to the bridge where you walk over into Zion) for the same price that we would have paid for the diesel to drive down and back up PLUS the kids and I didn't have to take away from our time at Zion to go get him so: score there! Posting pics next... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveInTN 3,247 Posted June 2, 2018 Report Share Posted June 2, 2018 All right! Something to read while I have my coffee..... Good call on the shuttle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cortezcapt (Derek) 156 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 It's great they found you a tow company and you were able to find a repair place that could do it quickly. I hate to even think of how long it could have taken had you had to go to camping world. We have the same problem with the door on our travel trailer not shutting easily. It drives me nuts because it seems to happen randomly. Sometimes when the trailer is level, or out of level, then sometimes it doesn't do it, I can't figure out what to do to stop it. One snake encounter is more than enough for me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Okay... I finally had to stop uploading pictures to add, because I figured y'all didn't want to look at a couple hundred pictures Last year, we hiked Rocky Mountain National. Zion and RMNP are neck-to-neck for me. RMNP might edge out, just a smidge, on overall experience as I really like the town of Estes Park. However, for hiking, Zion all the way. There are so many trails available and the campground - LOVED it! Here are some pics of our site and the campground: This is the trail, that allows dogs and bikes. It's also, wheelchair friendly (isn't my girl, too cute ): Daddy made it! This is the lawn, at the lodge. Excellent picnic area: The Virgin River runs through ZNP. It's beautiful and the water was very clear during our visit (as I understand it, muddy water means the potential for flash flooding): Highest point of the river, in this part of ZNP, starts at The Narrows. A hike that I desperately wanted to do, but did not have enough time (I needed to do it alone, as it was too tricky for the kids and we only had a couple of days with daddy at Zion). The picture doesn't make it look technically challenging, but the water is very cold and can get pretty deep. A majority of the 5+ miles in, you're walking through water. I debated hard on this one as it was BEAUTIFUL. This picture was taken at the end of the short hike, that takes you to the start of The Narrows. The walk in is easy and wheelchair friendly. A must-do for any ZNP visit. Here is the NP link: https://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/thenarrows.htm I could go on and on about ZNP and probably post another 100 pictures. It's that beautiful. Instead, I'll just say that next up, I get to see where the Angel's Land. The kids had some daddy time and I had an AMAZING experience.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ImDownWithDisney 342 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Beautiful! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveInTN 3,247 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 I am not opposed to you posting 100 pictures of Zion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs.TN22 12 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 So beautiful!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, DaveInTN said: I am not opposed to you posting 100 pictures of Zion. Ha...thanks! But you may want to look at them fast, because it looks like photobucket is acting up (when I pull up this post, earlier pics are not showing up). 12 hours ago, Cortezcapt (Derek) said: One snake encounter is more than enough for me! We were glad, that it was only one. I don't actually mind snakes, so long as I see them first... and they're not near the kids or in our house. I have no desire to see something venomous, but from a far, it wouldn't bother me. 1 hour ago, ImDownWithDisney said: Beautiful! Yes! 1 hour ago, Mrs.TN22 said: So beautiful!!! It was unbelievable... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twiceblessed....nacole 433 Posted June 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 I need to push through, as we're heading to FL soon and I'm going to run out of time. ANGELS LANDING. Phenomenal hike. A little tough going up, with the climb in elevation and switchbacks, but seriously awesome. The hike itself is only about 2.25 miles up, elevation climb is around 1500 feet. I can't remember how many switchbacks. The top of the climb is the where the technical rating kicks up a notch as it requires you to climb up/over rocks, carefully pass other climbers on a very narrow "path" and make sure that you don't fall of the edge cliff. Each year, climbers are killed on this hike. It's not for the faint of heart but oh my gosh... it. was. awesome. I had to pick between a few hikes, narrowed it down the Angels Landing and The Narrows... then decided on the Angels Landing simply for the thrill. I think The Narrows might have been a prettier hike, but as for the challenge: I can't imagine anything greater at Zion, than Angels Landing. Park of the hike: A few, from the top: Here's a random video, from youtube: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robin 48 Posted June 3, 2018 Report Share Posted June 3, 2018 Wow so beautiful! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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