Profit per site/room

[Travisma 1,317]

People always bemoan (including myself) the rising site costs and the vanishing amenities/things that make the Fort unique.

 

Do we have anyone out there that has knowledge of the Forts profit or loss (ha ha) per site compared to a room at a resort?

 

To me, it would seem that a site is more profitable since there is less daily upkeep... no fresh linens, maid service, restocking soaps, cleaning the room before the next guest, etc (except the cabins).  There are no fancy lobbies or hallways to keep clean and upkeep, no A/C usage, less water usage, no fancy grounds or pools to maintain, less maintenance/maid/front desk staff.

 

To turn a Fort site, Joe leaf blower comes in, blows the trash off the site (picks it up if it's big enough) hoses the pad, and maybe rakes.  I have a feeling they don't check the water, electric, or cable connection unless someone has complained.  Takes about 10 minutes to flip a site.

 

If you're lucky the trash crew comes around daily to empty the loop cans.

 

The lawn crew has maybe more grass but less fancy flower beds to maintain.

 

So even if  a room is 2 to 3 times more than a site, there seems to be a lot more overhead cutting into the profits at a resort, even the moderate ones.

 

If a room stays vacant, there is still A/C cooling it.

 

If a site sits empty, it may get a few leaves on the pad that may or may not get cleaned off before you check in.

 

To me, the Fort seems like a cash cow to Disney that should be treated a lot better than it is, and maybe even expanded.

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

The cost of infrastructure up keep ( roads, water lines, sewer system, elec, grounds, tree trimming etc) is much higher than you think. Roto rooter is there at least every other weekend during peak times cleaning the sewer line along Wilderness Way. Also most FORT guests probably consume 3 times the amount of electric than a resort guest and probably more water as well since they are at their site (in their room) for longer periods than resort guests also. Plus you have the internal buses running 16/18 hrs a day.

[Travisma 1,317]

The cost of infrastructure up keep ( roads, water lines, sewer system, elec, grounds, tree trimming etc) is much higher than you think. Roto rooter is there at least every other weekend during peak times cleaning the sewer line along Wilderness Way. Also most FORT guests probably consume 3 times the amount of electric than a resort guest and probably more water as well since they are at their site (in their room) for longer periods than resort guests also. Plus you have the internal buses running 16/18 hrs a day.

You have a good point, but I would love to be a fly on the wall during budget meetings to see what the profit margins are at each resort.

 

I imagine that the electric cost for 1 day at the Boardwalk is probably higher that 2 or 3 loops worth of Class A's for a week during summer with their A/C's running. Just keeping the hotels common areas cool and clean must be $$$$.

 

It just seems since the Fort is more rustic that a lot of the costs should be lower.  The roads have been there for years, unless they have to cut them for problems they don't seem to get a lot of work done to them.

 

Grounds aren't as fancy, no fancy restaurans or pools to maintain.

 

I guess each resort has its money pit and its money maker...

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

It's a good question, but I don't think any of us can give an accurate answer.

 

I agree with what Grumpy said- the transportation costs for Fort Wilderness are probably much higher than at other resorts.  In addition to the internal bus system, and the full bus service from the Outpost, the Fort also has boat service, which probably doesn't come cheap.

 

Also, the cabins are probably lumped in to the same budget with the campsites.  Those things have to be much more expensive to maintain than regular resort rooms.

 

I've always figured that Disney beancounters hate the Fort because it takes up so much prime real estate, and for the size of its footprint does not provide the revenue stream that a giant resort with 2000 or more rooms would.

 

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

It's a good question, but I don't think any of us can give an accurate answer.

 

I agree with what Grumpy said- the transportation costs for Fort Wilderness are probably much higher than at other resorts.  In addition to the internal bus system, and the full bus service from the Outpost, the Fort also has boat service, which probably doesn't come cheap.

 

Also, the cabins are probably lumped in to the same budget with the campsites.  Those things have to be much more expensive to maintain than regular resort rooms.

 

I've always figured that Disney beancounters hate the Fort because it takes up so much prime real estate, and for the size of its footprint does not provide the revenue stream that a giant resort with 2000 or more rooms would.

 

TCD

Yeah, I was just thinking more along the lines of the low maintenance on the sites and common buildings as compared to a resort room and building.

 

I figured there would be a much higher labor cost per room at a resort, all the linens that need to be changed and washed etc.

 

I forgot about the infernal busses. The external transportations probably pretty much even out between the different resorts.

 

Profits and losses, each resort I guess will be different, but it would be interesting to see what resort was the winner, and what one was the loser.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

TCD. Can you break out your purple crayon and show the footprint of the fort ms maybe the AS, PO, and AK resorts for comparison purposes.

Just curious.

[keith_h 420]

My guess is Disney has pretty good margins on all of their rooms and campsites. I can't speak to Dinsey's nor up to date costs but when my little brother was manager of one of the highrise convention hotels on International Drive he said his break even price per room was about $29/night. Their main rate was $90/night for two double beds although you could walk in and get a better rate if they had space. He said their profit margin was pretty typical of the industry in that area and other resort/destination lodging.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

TCD. Can you break out your purple crayon and show the footprint of the fort ms maybe the AS, PO, and AK resorts for comparison purposes.

Just curious.

 

This is going to be a bit messy, but here you go:

 

 

I needed to do that in three photos so you could see the actual resorts I marked.  Note how huge the Fort is compared to the All Stars and Coronado Springs, which are big resorts.  It dwarfs the other deluxe resorts.

 

It may be true that the per site profit on the campsites is higher than the per room profit in a hotel, but they can cram a lot of hotel rooms in a lot smaller a space.

 

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

 

This is going to be a bit messy, but here you go:

 

 

I needed to do that in three photos so you could see the actual resorts I marked.  Note how huge the Fort is compared to the All Stars and Coronado Springs, which are big resorts.  It dwarfs the other deluxe resorts.

 

It may be true that the per site profit on the campsites is higher than the per room profit in a hotel, but they can cram a lot of hotel rooms in a lot smaller a space.

 

TCD

Hmmm, they can close the Fort, build a hotel and decorate the rooms to look like tents or RV's and  the city slickers can do glamping!

 

Air conditioned and bug free with room service thrown in.

 

A GAG will set you back a measly $79.95 plus tax and tip.

 

Each room can have a mini golf cart to get you from your room to the lobby and your car.

[DavinD 4]

I often think about this.  I worry that some day they will want to re-use the land for a higher density.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

Thanks TCD.

That definitely puts it in perspective for me.

I knew the Fort was big. I just never realized how big it actually is.

[Specularius 102]

You forgot Wilderness Lodge...OH the horror.....

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

You forgot Wilderness Lodge...OH the horror.....

 

Yeah, and I should have circled the Epcot Resorts too.

 

But, you get the point.

 

TCD

[Specularius 102]

What I was implying was Wilderness lodge has the highest income per acre other than the Grand Floridian, and I can't understand how people pay the GF prices.

[Travisma 1,317]

What I was implying was Wilderness lodge has the highest income per acre other than the Grand Floridian, and I can't understand how people pay the GF prices.

Only to be surpassed by the Poly Bungalow$

[Specularius 102]

Only to be surpassed by the Poly Bungalow$

 

But the WL has its own bungalows coming soon, very soon.

[swimmarz 72]

I am no bean counter by any means, however I am a stock holder

per the 2014 numbers below

Disney saw 132.5 million guest use the parks and stay at resorts, including the cruise ship and various properties not attached to a theme park

those guests generated $13.5 billion in revenue, total across all items including tv, interactive, merchandising, movies was  was $45 billion

and a profit of 2.2 Billion, total profit across all lines was 10.7 billion

now I may be off on my math,that being said

guest revenue averaged at $1018.86 per person for a profit of only $16.60?!? per person

 

$16.60 x 132,500,500( guests) = $2,199,500,000

its not about the large profit, if you can do large volume, they don't need to make $60/ night on a room, they only need a few buck's as they are doing millions of times