Fort DVC Plans

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Fort DVC to break ground in 2018?

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts-48755/other-proposed-resorts-89555/2684-the-next-decade-of-dvc

 

I agree with LoneStar- good find.

 

This article rehashes rumors I've seen elsewhere, but the rumors are becoming more and more consistent.

 

Based on how often this Wilderness Lodge to DVC rumor has been repeated, I have to believe that the idea is being seriously kicked around by the idiots in charge.

 

If this does happen, I have a hard time believing that they would then build the River Country DVC to the scale shown in the leaked plans.  Rather, I would expect them to be looking around at other resorts where they could create new DVC rooms on the cheap like this plan allows them to do.

 

TCD

[.....Gary 85]

"Borrowing another page from the Polynesian playbook, the expanded Wilderness Lodge DVC will also feature prestigious bungalow-style accommodations.  Keeping with the wilderness theme, Disney plans to build stand-alone cabins along the beach bordering Bay Lake.  The cabins will sleep 8-9 guests and feature high end amenities like a private fire pit and hot tub."

 

I could see Disney filling in the horse shoe shaped area between WL and RC with the bungalows and converting some of RC area to high end camper area.  A few pad sites for when musicians are visiting/ performing and people that have RVs that don't fit under the check in awnings.  I am thinking a 3 star camper area with CM that come and hook up the sewage line  and dump the tanks for you.

I have heard that these services and more are available in the 3000 loop.  Since the loop is invitation only, I can't say for sure...   :clint:

[Travisma 1,317]

That's an interesting article.  And it raises some thoughts....rather than build the Fort DVC, they could convert the entire Wilderness Lodge into DVC, including those lakefront cabins, expanded pool and lazy river, etc.  If the occupancy issues at Deluxe resorts mentioned in the article is true, taking those 728 rooms offline would seem to help by pushing those guests to other WDW Deluxe properties.  They could also build amenities in the dead space running from the Lodge to River Country if they wanted to integrate the resorts further....maybe even dust off the old Buffalo Junction plans.  That gets rid of the RC eyesore without plunking down a monstrous resort on the Fort's beach.  

 

 

I would say it's under-utilized or undeveloped.

 

Does Disney have to follow any environmental/mitigation rules since this is private property and a private lake?

 

I know if a regular developer tried to take out that much greenspace on a lakeside, they would be tied up in courts for eternity.

[Lou... 3,118]

Does Disney have to follow any environmental/mitigation rules since this is private property and a private lake?

 

It's a very complicated arrangement, but your assumption that Disney owns all the land and lakes that make up WDW is incorrect. They own about 2/3s of the land. RCID owns a little less than a 1/3, and the rest is owned by the state of Florida and various other entities.

WDW is subject to the laws, rules, and regulations that any other county in Florida has to abide with.

 

WDW is located in two towns, Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake. They in turn make up the "Reedy Creek Improvement District", RCID, which is the taxing agent for the two towns in the District. The RCID is managed by a board of supervisors made up of senior Disney CMs who reside in the District. In effect Disney has control, but they are subject to everything that any other county in Florida is. If anything, because they are under a microscope, they have to cross every "T" and dot every "I" because everyone is watching. 

 

It's a good arrangement for everyone, but Disney can not do anything it wants when it wants it. Disney has to be a good citizen because the Florida legislature could terminate the sweetheart arrangement if they can muster up the votes.

[Travisma 1,317]

So there won't be any wholesale changes on the lakefront without going thru the same process that everyone in Fl has to.

[arthuruscg 34]

I wonder if the RC area could be redeveloped quicker then the undeveloped area.

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

[Okieatheart 33]

 

WDW is located in two towns, Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake. They in turn make up the "Reedy Creek Improvement District", RCID, which is the taxing agent for the two towns in the District. The RCID is managed by a board of supervisors made up of senior Disney CMs who reside in the District. In effect Disney has control, but they are subject to everything that any other county in Florida is. If anything, because they are under a microscope, they have to cross every "T" and dot every "I" because everyone is watching. 

 

 

 

It seems to me that if Disney does, in fact, own the land around Bay Lake, then RCID can only deny the development because of water or sewer issues.  Environmental concerns would fall under the state of Florida mandates with which Disney's engineers must deal. 

 

Every taxing board is under a microscope these days.  Not too long ago, several board members in a Houston district were given prison sentences for misuse of public funds; it wasn't pretty and really scared other board members all around the city.  We ALL "cross every T and dot every i" because we are using people's money, and there are very strict laws on what we can and can't do with that money.  

[Lou... 3,118]

We ALL "cross every T and dot every i" because we are using people's money, and there are very strict laws on what we can and can't do with that money.  

 

I'm sure that's the case, and with all due respect due to your involvement in such matters Jean Ann, but I'm of the opinion that RCID is different from other similar districts simply because it's Disney.

 

Is there another district that is under scrutiny by politicians and the national media like Disney? Are there any other districts that have such a close connection to an American corporate icon?

 

There was so much resentment from the rest of the state when Disney got this deal that you'd think the other counties were going to secede from the state, if they could. There are books written about how evil Disney was. There was a lot of bad press and bitterness. That resentment hasn't subsided in the least. It continues, especially in the local and national media.

 

When something happens at WDW which also happens regularly elsewhere, it's blown out of proportion only because it's big bad corporate Disney. It's a unique situation in that regard.

[Okieatheart 33]

I'm sure that's the case, and with all due respect due to your involvement in such matters Jean Ann, but I'm of the opinion that RCID is different from other similar districts simply because it's Disney.

 

Is there another district that is under scrutiny by politicians and the national media like Disney? National? No.  Local? Yes.  Are there any other districts that have such a close connection to an American corporate icon?  I am not aware of any.

 

There was so much resentment from the rest of the state when Disney got this deal that you'd think the other counties were going to secede from the state, if they could. There are books written about how evil Disney was. There was a lot of bad press and bitterness. That resentment hasn't subsided in the least. It continues, especially in the local and national media.

 

When something happens at WDW which also happens regularly elsewhere, it's blown out of proportion only because it's big bad corporate Disney. It's a unique situation in that regard.

 

I'm not really sure how to answer you on this.  You know the difference between RCID and Disney, and I understand how closely tied they are.  All I was saying is that RCID can't really refuse a Disney project on Disney land unless they cannot provide the services - the water, the sewer, and fire protection.  Everything else - by law - is out of RCID's hands.  

 

I really have no business debating this with you.  You live there and I don't.  The laws regarding utility districts in Florida (which, according to a list of utility districts in the US, RCID is) may differ from the laws here.

 

As for the critics, I'm not surprised they have pounced on Disney.  There are critics and haters out there everywhere; it seems the media love to demonize successful, profitable companies.  But if Disney's engineers and lawyers follow state, county and even federal laws, the critics have no viable platform.  They're just spewing hatred and mess.

[Lou... 3,118]

RCID can't really refuse a Disney project on Disney land unless they cannot provide the services - the water, the sewer, and fire protection.  Everything else - by law - is out of RCID's hands.  Agreed

 

I really have no business debating this with you. If you don't, who does?

 

As for the critics, I'm not surprised they have pounced on Disney.  There are critics and haters out there everywhere; it seems the media love to demonize successful, profitable companies.  But if Disney's engineers and lawyers follow state, county and even federal laws, the critics have no viable platform.  They're just spewing hatred and mess. What's annoying is that Disney/RCID does what it's supposed to do, but also caves into the critics and then it's PC run amuck.

 

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

What's annoying is that Disney/RCID does what it's supposed to do, but also caves into the critics and then it's PC run amuck.

That happens all too often in local Governments all over. I put up with it for 23 years, "The law says this, but we can't make a taxpayer un-happy. How do we get around it?". Idiot administrators and elected officials. Luckily 99% of the time the attorneys agreed with me and said "don't do it".

[Okieatheart 33]

 

 

As for the critics, I'm not surprised they have pounced on Disney.  There are critics and haters out there everywhere; it seems the media love to demonize successful, profitable companies.  But if Disney's engineers and lawyers follow state, county and even federal laws, the critics have no viable platform.  They're just spewing hatred and mess. What's annoying is that Disney/RCID does what it's supposed to do, but also caves into the critics and then it's PC run amuck.  Oh, boy!  You've opened up a whole other can of worms on that one!  

 

 

 

That happens all too often in local Governments all over. I put up with it for 23 years, I've now served for 24 years."The law says this, but we can't make a taxpayer un-happy. How do we get around it?". That's where you get into trouble.  I've spent my entire life trying to keep my name from being a blazing banner headline in the local newspaper.  My position on the board is to make sure we follow the law by paying attention to our lawyers and other consultants.  True, I only have one vote and one voice, but that voice can get pretty loud.  Dealing with taxpayers and their money is sticky business.  After all, I'm a taxpayer, too.   Idiot administrators and elected officials. I'm not going to take that personally.  Luckily 99% of the time the attorneys agreed with me and said "don't do it".  

 

I realize I'm sounding like Dolly Do Gooder, and I don't mean to preach - and I'm really not all that good - but in an elected office, one must follow the law.  Luckily, our board doesn't have to make PC decisions.  Basically, it comes down to can we provide available water for this endeavor or not, are Monday and Thursday good trash days, what water and sewer lines do we need to replace, and do we really need that brand new ambulance - not really earth-shattering decisions.     

[Lou... 3,118]

Basically, it comes down to can we provide available water for this endeavor or not, are Monday and Thursday good trash days, what water and sewer lines do we need to replace, and do we really need that brand new ambulance - not really earth-shattering decisions.     

 

Your situation is a little tougher as you have many residents that are impacted, but RCID in reality, has one and the entire RCID board are employed by that one resident. Plus members serve at the pleasure of that one resident.

I don't know how other districts are setup, but to me, this one seems a little suspect.

[Okieatheart 33]

Hmmm. . . a little conflict of interest at play here?  But, in truth, it would be a little hard to get board members who aren't affiliated with Disney since all members must be residents of the district - or at least land owners.  

 

Oh, wait.  I see what you are saying.  Yes, I agree there's probably some under-the-table business going on; but, like you said, it's Disney's fault for setting up the district that way in the first place - and the state's for approving it.  

[Lou... 3,118]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great setup for the unique circumstances and would approve it for any other similar situations.

If I were Disney, I would have demanded it or I'm taking my ball and going home.

[Okieatheart 33]

And I'll bet that is just what Disney did!

 

Sorry for hijacking this thread for so long, but I really enjoyed the conversation!

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great setup for the unique circumstances and would approve it for any other similar situations.

If I were Disney, I would have demanded it or I'm taking my ball and going home.

 

I agree.  Florida would have been nuts to not setup the district the way Disney wanted to. 

 

I worked with a District that had a similar arrangement although its intended to be temporary, Ave Maria, FL.  It's board was filled by the developer/landowner and as they sale more homes board positions become available to represent the actual residents.

 

Check it out online if you've never heard of it, I did a lot of the civil design out there.

 

WBI

[caveat lector 181]

?....but in an elected office, one must follow the law

Therein lies the rub. Ideally laws are black and white. Unfortunately, they are not and thus the need for the judicial branch of our govt. Granted that most honest people make a good faith effort to follow the law, while other folks can higher high priced legal representatives to work around.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

And I'll bet that is just what Disney did!

 

Sorry for hijacking this thread for so long, but I really enjoyed the conversation!

 

Never apologize for a good hijack!

 

(just a bad one LOL)

[Lou... 3,118]

I worked with a District that had a similar arrangement although its intended to be temporary, Ave Maria, FL.  It's board was filled by the developer/landowner and as they sale more homes board positions become available to represent the actual residents.

 

Very interesting Nick.

 

I see some similarities to Celebration, the Disney built master-planned community/town. And like Celebration and if it hasn't already happened, the umbilical cord to the developer/owner will be severed. It'll have to sink or swim on it's own at some point.

 

Another thing that makes RCID stand out is the shear size and scope of the district. It's not just the size of a small town, it's a small county. It's so big that they built a small town, de-annexed it, and what's left is still huge.

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

Very interesting Nick.

 

I see some similarities to Celebration, the Disney built master-planned community/town. And like Celebration and if it hasn't already happened, the umbilical cord to the developer/owner will be severed. It'll have to sink or swim on it's own at some point.

 

Another thing that makes RCID stand out is the shear size and scope of the district. It's not just the size of a small town, it's a small county. It's so big that they built a small town, de-annexed it, and what's left is still huge.

 

Yeah it was a neat project at the time, and it would have been great, except about the time it opened is when the housing crisis hit.  It didn't take long for people to realize for the same money they would rather buy a house close to the beach and not in the middle of farm property, lol.  If it would have been built out in the timeline that was projected though it would have been fun.

 

It was definitely modeled after Celebration and Seaside and other TND communities, it really is a great concept and I could see myself living in a place like Celebration one day, BUT I need a little extra room right now.

 

Good point about RCID it's huge compared to a community, as you said it lost Celebration and its still big!

 

WBI