Hitch Weight...

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Very fun... I have a headache 

[PGHFiend 140]

You haven't even begun to have a headache. Even though I do believe you'll be fine with the trailer, I looked around and found that an Armada has a max payload of 1600 lbs. So, if you hook on a 1000 pound trailer, you've got 600 pounds for 2 adults and 2 kids plus anything in the car

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

We usually don't have anything in the truck (except the stroller and a few toys)... total weight for the four of us right now, is around 450.  Our hope is that we'll stay under that 600 for the next few years... at which time we'll be ready to move up to a different TV.

[PGHFiend 140]

I'd like to get the model numbers of the 2 you're looking into.

[Helmsey......Todd 134]

There is another way you would not have to worry about weight issue but buying a bigger tow vehicle is out of the question :rofl3: besides when we did that we ended up getting a bigger 5th wheel, again and again and again.

 

I finally did the "buy a bigger truck" thing after the last 2 we got could not keep up with the campers we wanted. Granted, I didn't take the leap you did....but I should be good for a while :D

[dblr....Rennie 224]

I finally did the "buy a bigger truck" thing after the last 2 we got could not keep up with the campers we wanted. Granted, I didn't take the leap you did....but I should be good for a while :D

 

You never know, after you visit me at Deer Run you might want the BIG truck!!!!!!!!

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Okay... I have a question.  Strike that... another question (what would I do without you all??!).

 

So.. the GVWR of this one trailer is 7780 lbs.  As I understand it that means that fully loaded the MOST this camper can safely weigh is 7780 lbs.  Correct?  The paperwork also shows a tongue weight of 780 lbs, which is 10% of GVWR soooo.... if we don't load the trailer up and on the scales it actually only weighs 6400 lbs, does that mean that the tongue weight would actually translate to 640 lbs?  In other words, does the tongue weight change with the weight of the camper??

[TN22.....Brady 22]

Kind of.....there is no direct answer IMHO. The maximum GVW of the trailer is 7780 and the maximum tongue weight is 780 IF the trailer is loaded optimal

[TN22.....Brady 22]

OK the edit button has decided to flake out for me. I think there is a minimum tongue weight which is most likely 10% of the GVW dry weight. So theoretically you could adjust the tongue weight by lightning the load, but only by so much.

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

Have you considered a heavier duty tow vehicle? In my experience once you start worrying about exceeding vehicle capacity and trying to ration a few hundred pounds here and there you're bound to have a white knuckle drive at best. At worst it will be white knuckle and dangerous.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Have you considered a heavier duty tow vehicle? In my experience once you start worrying about exceeding vehicle capacity and trying to ration a few hundred pounds here and there you're bound to have a white knuckle drive at best. At worst it will be white knuckle and dangerous.

 

Yes, we'll upgrade the TV in a few years.  The only thing we're worried about on one of these trailers (the one we actually prefer) is the hitch weight.  The other we can reduce the hitch weight by 40ish lbs by moving the spare tire from the hitch to the back of the TT which makes the hitch weight on that unit doable.  Outside of that, with everything considered (trailer, cargo/fluid in TT and people/cargo in TV) we'll be at, or under, 80% of our TV's tow capacity.

[PGHFiend 140]

A few last thoughts from me (prob not worth much)

 

1. This trailer dealer, if they want this sale, should have no issue scaling that trailer for you- Either they have a portable in-house or they tow it with their lot truck to a scrap yard or truck scales, this should be an easy thing to get a definitive answer. If not, there are creative ways to do it with a good bathroom scale and some blocks of wood and a tape measure (Before you buy!)

 

2. Once you have a baseline, you can then theorize how you will need to or maybe NOT need to distribute the weight to make you feel comfortable.

 

3. I know the tow police ( if there are any on this board) will have a field day with our exchanges here, but no one realistically is worried about 40lbs too much weight. TT's should come in at 10% Tongue weight, but there are variances.  The threads I have googled since talking with you about this all bring me to surmise that the Armada is a very stout TV, and you should be fine with a trailer in the 7500-8000 loaded range. If the propane tanks and batteries make the tongue weight too much, stick em in the bathtub until you get to camp.  

 

4. Hope to see you confidently pull into the Fort someday!

Good Luck

AP

[PGHFiend 140]

Nacole, found this on the web, the gentlemen was pretty thorough and may give you an idea what you are looking at.

Here is the URL:

 

http://forums.trailerlifedirectory.com/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25899156/print/true.cfm

 

And I pasted the pertinent stuff below:

 

 

Topic: Nissan Armada/Coachmen 292BHDS Liberty Edition Tow Report Posted By: steeleshark on 03/18/12 05:23pm 
  Ok, just to show what the 2011 Nissan Armada w/ factory tow package can tow, here are my weights.

7240lbs- Trailer loaded with all except clothes and food. (The trailer is listed in having around 5600lbs dry weight to give you and idea how far off it can be from loaded.) I do have the fresh water tank about 1/3 full.

800lbs Hitch Weight (11) percent of total weight

As for the Armada:

GVWR- 7150
CVWR- 15100
MAX TOW- 9100
MAX TONGUE- 910
MAX FRONT AXLE- 3399
MAX REAR AXLE- 4299

Actual weights with difference from max:

5400lbs with a half tank of gas (Another 10 gal until full about 80lbs)
7150-5400= 1750 left for payload not including tongue weight
1750-800 (tongue weight)= 950 for rest of payload

Front axle- 2640
3399-2640= 759 left

Rear Axle-3520
4299-3520= 779 left

Tongue weight- 800 (11 percent of total trailer)
910-800=110 left

Gross combined- 12640
15100-12640= 2640 left

With my family of 4 including me, we are under all weights. The "shorter wheel base (123.2 inches)" is no problem with this 33.5ft trailer. I do have dual friction sway bars with a curt wd hitch. I tow at 64mph getting 10mpg. When towing, I can feel the trailer behind me but it is very stable. You will get the standard suck and blow when large vehicles pass on the highway. Great tow vehicle in my book. 

[Davydee 3]

I've enjoyed reading this thread and would only add that as long as you feel safe, I'd go with the trailer Momma likes.  Have fun! David

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

 

Nacole, found this on the web, the gentlemen was pretty thorough and may give you an idea what you are looking at.

Here is the URL:

 

http://forums.trailerlifedirectory.com/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/25899156/print/true.cfm

 

And I pasted the pertinent stuff below:

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  Funny enough, I've "talked" with this guy (found him on some forum and then a FB page I believe).  He was very happy with both the trailer and the Armada as a TV.

 

Still undecided... but the tongue weight on the Solaire (780#) really does make me nervous.

 

 

I've enjoyed reading this thread and would only add that as long as you feel safe, I'd go with the trailer Momma likes.  Have fun! David

 

Haha... funny thing is, Mama is not sure on this one.  Tough part is:  The Solaire (heavier tongue weight) is less expensive and at a dealership that I like compared to the Coachmen which is a little over $3k more at a dealership that I have not been thrilled with (okay... the salesperson I have not been thrilled with; he's the only person that I have dealt with).

[dblr....Rennie 224]

If you move the battery to the bath tub to lesson tongue  weight you will not have your break away breaks for the trailer, never need them but still like to have them.

[keith_h 420]

Are they calling the hitch weight a dry hitch weight? If you don't know you need to find out if they are dry or maximum weights before you can go much further. My trailer is very clear with terminology in regards to the trailer dry weight and the dry tongue weight. Ideally for towing you want the tongue weight to be between 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight (closer to 10% the better). You can adjust this somewhat by the way the trailer is loaded. Moving weight towards the front or back, the axles work as a fulcrum,  as needed will change the tongue weight and can be used to fine tune your setup.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

If you move the battery to the bath tub to lesson tongue  weight you will not have your break away breaks for the trailer, never need them but still like to have them.

 

Thank you... excellent thought.

 

 

Are they calling the hitch weight a dry hitch weight? If you don't know you need to find out if they are dry or maximum weights before you can go much further. My trailer is very clear with terminology in regards to the trailer dry weight and the dry tongue weight. Ideally for towing you want the tongue weight to be between 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight (closer to 10% the better). You can adjust this somewhat by the way the trailer is loaded. Moving weight towards the front or back, the axles work as a fulcrum,  as needed will change the tongue weight and can be used to fine tune your setup.

 

We're having the dealerships weight the tongues, so we know what we're actually dealing with...

[Helmsey......Todd 134]

We're having the dealerships weight the tongues, so we know what we're actually dealing with...

 

That't the best option, no more guessing on what it weighs (while empty)

[Humphrey Bear…Rob 42]

If it helps any, I towed a 24' Desert fox (small but heavy) toy hauler for 7 years with a class IV hitch on a 07 Ram 2500.   Hitch weight was 1000lbs and camper was about 9-10K lbs depending on load out and I never had an issue.

 

I did get under the rear about twice or more a season and look at the welds on the hitch and all bolts were snug with no premature wear.  

 

Class IV is 1000lbs or less - you should be fine with either camper.  Just be mindful when you load it - if water tanks are behind the axles you can fill them - just depends on how it "feels"

 

Stopping power IMHO is the most important aspect of towing… LOL!

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Thanks Rob... appreciate the insight.

[ependydad...Doug 176]

You can usually best guess estimate the actual tongue weight by extrapolating from the dry weights. What you do is figure out the percentage that the tongue weight is from the dry weight. Sometimes you may want to increase this by 1/2-2% depending on the camper's layout and where the bulk of your storage is. Then you make a best guess at your actual loaded weight and multiple it by that dry percentage.

Sounds complicated, but fortunately there is a handy dandy mobile-friendly tool for it at:

http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/TonguePinWeightFromDry

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

You can usually best guess estimate the actual tongue weight by extrapolating from the dry weights. What you do is figure out the percentage that the tongue weight is from the dry weight. Sometimes you may want to increase this by 1/2-2% depending on the camper's layout and where the bulk of your storage is. Then you make a best guess at your actual loaded weight and multiple it by that dry percentage. Sounds complicated, but fortunately there is a handy dandy mobile-friendly tool for it at: http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/TonguePinWeightFromDry

 

Thanks Doug... we've found your site/blog VERY helpful :)

 

So... the hitch weight listed on specs for trailers is actually a dry hitch weight... one that increases with what you put into the trailer?  Is this why they say that you can lessen the load by putting stuff in the rear of the trailer?  I know you want to be careful about too much in the rear as that will make for a harder tow (sway, correct?)... but b/c our truck has a lower tongue weight, I'm thinking about buying a tongue/hitch scale so I'll know if we move a little to towards the back of the trailer.   

[keith_h 420]

Running the calculations on the trailer specs you provided they show hitch weights of 12%-13% of the trailer dry weight. This leads me to believe they might be the dry weights as manufacturers try to shoot for a hitch weight of  10%-15%  of the trailer dry weight. With the GVW's you provided and keeping the same 12%-13% ratio you would have potential hitch weights of 1000-1100 lbs on a fully loaded trailer. To keep it at 910 lbs or less you would need to keep the trailer under 7500 lbs for a 12% ratio and under 7000 lbs for a 13% ratio. However these numbers depend a lot on how the weight is distributed in the trailer.

 

Since you say the dealer is willing to weigh the trailer to get the hitch weight I would wait and work with those numbers since they reflect your trailer with all options installed which dry weights do not.

[ependydad...Doug 176]

Thanks Doug... we've found your site/blog VERY helpful :)

 

So... the hitch weight listed on specs for trailers is actually a dry hitch weight... one that increases with what you put into the trailer?  Is this why they say that you can lessen the load by putting stuff in the rear of the trailer?  I know you want to be careful about too much in the rear as that will make for a harder tow (sway, correct?)... but b/c our truck has a lower tongue weight, I'm thinking about buying a tongue/hitch scale so I'll know if we move a little to towards the back of the trailer.   

You're correct, the tongue weight will only go up. You can lessen how much it goes up by careful and deliberate loading, but I doubt you'll ever see at or less than what is advertised. From what I understand, the weight listed is without battery or propane in the tanks (though, the tanks themselves are accounted for).

I think a scale is a good plan and you should also plan on spending the < $20 for weights at scales once you have the camper. Usually you don't want to go less than 10% tongue/hitch weight. Maybe talk to Sean at Pro-Ride to see if he has any suggestions since his hitch eliminates sway.