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Transportation Survey


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I think the cost of free transportation is built into park ticket prices and to a lesser degree housing/campground fees.  It only "feels" free.  Further, I think the day is not too far off when you will need to scan your magic band to get on the various types of transportation.  It would keep the non-guests off the transportation.

I'm all for the scanning of MBs or park tickets before using transportation. Only problem I see with that is it will make transportation even slower. A lot of people can't even manage to get their strollers folded up and ready before actually hitting the door to a bus or the edge of the dock, then they'd all have to be wearing their MB or have their park tickets out......

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On 8/20/2016 at 11:01 AM, BradyBzLyn...Mo said:

I think it's how they can solve the problem of lower attendance - whether by natural cycles or them manipulating the attendance on purpose as they essentially said they've done recently with the continued increase in ticket prices.  Higher per-guest spending means even if attendance is down, revenue isn't.

It's also a quicker shot to the bottom line than investing in things that will bring guests in over the long term.  Spend 30 million on an expansion that will take 5 years and probably not pay for itself for a lot longer than that - or - parking fee that increases your bottom line starting now.

Disney has also been churning out tons of "add-on" stuff lately - just this week they announced a new premium level for the Backyard BBQ where you get early access and some additional perks... for a fee.  There are now lots more tours, special viewing parties, dinner packages... all things that don't really cost Disney much as they work off things that already exist (maybe just some marketing and staffing). And despite some really steep price tags in a few cases, people are snapping them up!

On the plus side, this stuff only effects people that want to cough up the extra $, not every guest that comes through the gates.  But that's a relatively small number of people.  Additional fees, even small ones... that's a money maker.

I think TCD also makes a good point also about money on the table.  Other resorts and parks have been charging for all these things for ages now. While people wouldn't like it if WDW started to also, folks are used to being nickel and dimed already. It would make sense (business-wise) if Disney jumped in on that action.

I have to disagree. If crowd control and the immediate bottom line are the primary goals, I would argue that Disney has NOT gone far enough! There are a myriad of ways to provide a quick shot to the bottom line for most travel/destination businesses, but those have to be carefully balanced within what the market demands. I'm more than sure Disney knows the market numbers and consumer preferences much better than anyone in this business and I'm not second guessing them. On the other hand, enhancing guests experiences through pricing algorithms while accurate, is also very limited and can be risky. This is where Disney is a bit shortsighted IMO, and especially as a business whose attraction continues to be heavily based on a traditional "right of passage" experience.

It's well understood that Disney had few choices regarding their park crowds and essentially the park prices had to increase for such a demand; thus, the tiered pricing has proven to be a win. But from an investor standpoint, it is not understood as to why Disney has chosen to narrow its customer base for a short-term win. If parks are indeed the problem, what's with the other significant increases across the board and certainly the new approach of "nickle and diming" as continues to be rumored from guest surveys such as $15/guest/day resort fees, tiered parking fees, magic band fees, transportation fees, and etc. Are we anticipating future capacity based on coming attractions where the market will more than bare such costs and in reality non-Disney like inconveniences? IDK and only time will tell. No doubt we don't want to leave money on the table, but nothing leaves more money on the table than a frustrated or disenfranchised consumer.

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27 minutes ago, PghBob said:

Derek, I agree with you 100%.  But this old-fart remembers the early eighties, being issued transportation cards upon check-in, that you had to show to board the bus and boat.  Don't remember the monorails though.

I think the only thing you didn't show a transportation card for was the parking lot trams because you hadn't purchased a park ticket yet, which had transportation built into it.  I'm pretty sure you had to show a ticket for the monorails.

 

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17 minutes ago, Tuke said:

No doubt we don't want to leave money on the table, but nothing leaves more money on the table than a frustrated or disenfranchised consumer.

I agree, the problem here and now is that Disney has more customers than it knows what to do with so they can "afford" to lose a few, or even many....

In a traditional business when demand outpaces supply, prices will rise temporarily until that business increases supply or a competitor enters the market to satisfy the extra demand.

Disney has chosen instead to "manage the demand" rather than increase supply (new parks) and it's competitors also haven't done much to take Disney's share of the market.

Universal has had success with Harry Potter, but like Disney with Star Wars they are using that to enhance their existing (already crowded) parks.

Until that plays out or a competitor like Universal opens a park in Texas for example, we will see more of the demand managing via playing with prices and new sources of profit like transportation, etc.

The result is that Disney will keep looking for ways to further separate people into classes: Those who can afford the extras and those who can't.

I'm not sure Walt would be too happy about that approach....

 

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58 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

 

The result is that Disney will keep looking for ways to further separate people into classes: Those who can afford the extras and those who can't.

I'm not sure Walt would be too happy about that approach....

 

More power to the people that can afford to throw away $300 to take the family on a dessert cruise, or $2000 a night to have a bungalow next to a ferry boat.

I don't care if Disney comes up with a new way to separate people from their money every day, as long as it doesn't mess with my time at the parks.  If they want to charge for premium transportation fine, just don't make what is already in place worse.  If they want to have a dozen dessert parties go ahead, but don't make it so my family cant see the shows or attractions that I also paid for with my AP or daily admission ticket.

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8 minutes ago, Travisma said:

If they want to charge for premium transportation fine, just don't make what is already in place worse. 

Ah, but there's the rub.

If they improved the issues in the transportation system that make folks call Uber, that costs them money instead of making them money.  The solution?  Don't fix it- compete with Uber for those discretionary dollars.  And guess what?  The beauty of this idea is that the worse the "free" transportation gets, the more business will be driven to the pay transportation!

If they added more attractions or expanded EMH's for resort guests (don't forget that the times of EMH's were cut in the past few years), then they wouldn't be able to sell the new Early Morning Magic packages that they're selling now, and recently expanded from the MK to Hollywood Studios.  Watch- Epcot will be next.

They only show Wishes once a night, so what's the solution when they are selling out the expensive Dessert Party?  Take away the Fastpass viewing area, and make that exclusive to Dessert Party guests.

It used to be that guests who showed up first at the parking lots for the parks would get the best spots.  To heck with that.  They figured out they could rope off the good spots and sell them for twice the price, and that's what they're doing now.

Disney can and will devalue the experience for average park guests and passholders in order to rake in the cash from those with more money than sense.  That's clearly the direction we're heading, and it's going to continue for as long as they can ride the wave.

Is any of this wrong?  No- Disney is a for profit company that is responsible to its shareholders.  They aren't a charity, and Walt is long dead. Nobody in charge cares about him or his quaint ideas. Profit is all that matters.  Anyone who doesn't like that can find someplace else to visit.

TCD

 

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3 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Ah, but there's the rub.

If they improved the issues in the transportation system that make folks call Uber, that costs them money instead of making them money.  The solution?  Don't fix it- compete with Uber for those discretionary dollars.  And guess what?  The beauty of this idea is that the worse the "free" transportation gets, the more business will be driven to the pay transportation!

If they added more attractions or expanded EMH's for resort guests (don't forget that the times of EMH's were cut in the past few years), then they wouldn't be able to sell the new Early Morning Magic packages that they're selling now, and recently expanded from the MK to Hollywood Studios.  Watch- Epcot will be next.

They only show Wishes once a night, so what's the solution when they are selling out the expensive Dessert Party?  Take away the Fastpass viewing area, and make that exclusive to Dessert Party guests.

It used to be that guests who showed up first at the parking lots for the parks would get the best spots.  To heck with that.  They figured out they could rope off the good spots and sell them for twice the price, and that's what they're doing now.

Disney can and will devalue the experience for average park guests and passholders in order to rake in the cash from those with more money than sense.  That's clearly the direction we're heading, and it's going to continue for as long as they can ride the wave.

Is any of this wrong?  No- Disney is a for profit company that is responsible to its shareholders.  They aren't a charity, and Walt is long dead. Nobody in charge cares about him or his quaint ideas. Profit is all that matters.  Anyone who doesn't like that can find someplace else to visit.

TCD

 

Everything you said is true.  Hopefully they wont make the transportation any worse than it is.

But, I remember when the trams ran inside the Fort (I know they weren't ADA compliant) and they seemed to run a lot more frequently than the busses do now.  So by slowing down the inner transportation, a lot more people started to rent carts.

But also, if it's too crowded for us to see something, we leave and Disney may lose money on us buying a meal or snack because we left and ate elsewhere.

Also, because we had to fight crowds to get to a quick serve, we generally bring our food to the parks, and maybe get 1 snack to hold us over.  They want the people to spend, they need to make it easier for them.

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50 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Is any of this wrong?  No- Disney is a for profit company that is responsible to its shareholders.  They aren't a charity, and Walt is long dead. Nobody in charge cares about him or his quaint ideas. Profit is all that matters.  Anyone who doesn't like that can find someplace else to visit.

 

Much agreed and but I think it needs mentioned that the responsibility to shareholders involves profits but also long-term growth. Many of these fees and rumors of fees and other price hikes and charges for everything may present an immediate boom but in doing so are they sacrificing the future? Are they deciding to become just another Orlando park? I certainly do not believe Disney is doing themselves any favors from the perspective of a traditional "right of passage" family destination.

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15 minutes ago, Tuke said:

 

 Are we just becoming another Orlando park? 

Now Disney knows they are a one of a kind entertainment giant and can basically do what they want, and something really disastrous would have to happen to knock them out of #1.

But we are passholders for Busch Gardens, Sea World, and their water parks, and they are always giving perks to us.

Last year at Busch, they gave us $10 in Busch Bucks 3 times during the year No minimum purchase to redeem it.

We had 2 months where it was buy 1 get 1 sit down dinners, 2 times we got our choice of 6 different snack options.

Their meals are reasonably priced ($18 for a really good dinner buffet overlooking the Savannah), and you don't have to make a reservation 6 months ahead of time.

I know Busch, SeaWorld, and Universal will never be up there with Disney, but at least the SeaWorld Entertainment group cares about their passholders, so I choose to spend extra $$ at their parks because of the way we are treated.

 

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This thread is making me sad.

I said a few years ago that I was tired of being nickled and dimed to death and watching children race golf carts and watching Fort staff ignore every rule in their books and I remember writing  a long post bemoaning all the changes we had seen that winter that were so depressing.  At the time I said we might not be back.  Well we went back.   Twice.  We tried, we really did but I think that we've hit the last wall.  

Between all of the changes;  the ones we've seen over the past four to five years and that are all documented so well in all the threads; and  all the proposed ones, and the fences they're throwing up everywhere we won't be back.   This year we'll stay somewhere else for the winter.  We still have our annual pass and our DVC points but I don't even know if we'll renew the passes.  And we've been using the points for RCI exchanges for the last few years anyways.  

If we're in the area we may drive through, just for old times sake and to see if anyone we know is still around.  Of course that assumes we can even get in the gate without paying a fee.

I'm sad.

 

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17 hours ago, Travisma said:

I know Busch, SeaWorld, and Universal will never be up there with Disney, but at least the SeaWorld Entertainment group cares about their passholders, so I choose to spend extra $$ at their parks because of the way we are treated.

I hope not but this is where we would likely disagree. Why is Disney the one of a kind entertainment giant? My answer is because they have built generations of loyal fans from almost birth. Unfortunately for Disney, there is some real competition emerging. My teens are a good example. While they love Disney, Universal is their choice right now.  Some of it has to with Universal's older age image but regardless, Universal is the non-nerdy/"sexy" choice (for lack of a better terms) at this moment. So I don't think it will take something disastrous to knock Disney out but possibly time and who can prove to more effectively reach culture through entertainment.

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54 minutes ago, Tuke said:

I hope not but this is where we would likely disagree. Why is Disney the one of a kind entertainment giant? My answer is because they have built generations of loyal fans from almost birth. Unfortunately for Disney, there is some real competition emerging. My teens are a good example. While they love Disney, Universal is their choice right now.  Some of it has to with Universal's older age image but regardless, Universal is the non-nerdy/"sexy" choice (for lack of a better terms) right now. So I don't think it will take something disastrous to knock Disney out but possibly time and who more effectively reaches culture through entertainment.

You're teens aren't all that much different than my 30'ish Millennials.  When they were young we went to Disneyland a couple of times a year and after we moved east to WDW about once a year. They had their favorite 80's Disney princess and all that however they both now gravitate more towards Universal and think of Disney as quaint. A lot has to do with them both going through the Harry Potter and Terry Pratchett Discworld books in their tweens and teen years. The long term question is what happens to Disney when it is no longer the nostalgic choice (or right of passage as you call it) but just another player.   

I had more but my train of thought was interrupted by DD2 talking about having to reacquaint herself with Roman numeral math for her pharmacology courses. She says some doctors still use them so she is stuck having to take apothecary labs. :wacko:

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As someone who grew up going to Disney once every other year as a child I never knew why my father hated Disney parks so much (Turns out he hated crowds).  Now that I'm a father of a almost 2 year old we've been to WDW twice with him and will be going again for 14 days for his 3rd birthday.  Our 14 day trip is booked and we got a meal plan and 10 days of park tickets and for the 3 of us I didn't think the price was outrageous.  Expensive, yes but not outrageous.  

My wife and I went to NYC for 6 days and spent more than what our total is for our trip to WDW, and I expect to pay $500-$800 more than our booking price once the shopping and other stuff is done.

My wife and I also went on a 10 day Alaskan cruse taking a excursion at each stop (total of 5 stops) that exceeded what we are paying for our 14 day trip to WDW for 3 people.

We've even talked about flying down for a 4 day weekend and going to Universal staying in one of the new hotels and letting the inlaws watch the boy while we went into the park for 3 days and it would have cost us roughly the same per day, as our Disney trips have cost us.  

So I think Disney pricing, though expensive, is with in range for the market.  As for the additional costs for closer parking, or preferred seating.  If the market will bear it it only makes good scene to sell those extras.  I for one will buy one of the preferred seating for Wishes,  I dont want to sit around for an hour or longer holding a location and loose time spent with my Son and Wife at the parks.  To ME, that extra cost is worth paying to have a good experience, with out spending hours sitting around holding a spot. 

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  • 7 months later...

Looks like they may be proceeding with more of the ideas that they asked about in this survey.

A couple of FB sites have mentioned that Disney might be gearing up for an Uber type of service which was one of the questions.  They already implemented the Express Buses.

Then we just need to see if they start up the private/semi private car service for a day deal.

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On 8/22/2016 at 0:27 PM, Tri-Circle-D said:

 

If they added more attractions or expanded EMH's for resort guests (don't forget that the times of EMH's were cut in the past few years), then they wouldn't be able to sell the new Early Morning Magic packages that they're selling now, and recently expanded from the MK to Hollywood Studios.  Watch- Epcot will be next.

 

This is the perfect example. EMH's were originally a perk designed to fill the Disney resorts. Now that demand is (mostly) higher than supply, they can safely cut perks and artificially create demand for costly add-ons that were previously included.

 

On 4/18/2017 at 1:13 PM, Travisma said:

Looks like they may be proceeding with more of the ideas that they asked about in this survey.

A couple of FB sites have mentioned that Disney might be gearing up for an Uber type of service which was one of the questions.  They already implemented the Express Buses.

Then we just need to see if they start up the private/semi private car service for a day deal.

It's a brilliant plan, cut down on basic services, create long lines, and then charge extra to those who naturally don't want to stand in those lines.

How long can they keep doing it? As long as they have "unlimited" demand.

 

On 8/22/2016 at 0:58 PM, Tuke said:

 

Much agreed and but I think it needs mentioned that the responsibility to shareholders involves profits but also long-term growth. Many of these fees and rumors of fees and other price hikes and charges for everything may present an immediate boom but in doing so are they sacrificing the future? Are they deciding to become just another Orlando park? I certainly do not believe Disney is doing themselves any favors from the perspective of a traditional "right of passage" family destination.

Exactly. It's all short term. Until Disney, or one of their competitors, decide to address the long term, we'll see more crowds and less "Disney Magic" at the Parks.

 

 

 

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