TCD Ranch Relocation

[DaveInTN 3,247]

For those that have been to the Fort recently, or are there now, are there any physical signs at all that construction of the new horse barn is close? Or, for those of you that enjoy perusing the websites where permits and plans are posted...any signs that this is coming soon?

How about the new dining pavilion?

It seems awfully quiet. I remember when we paid a day visit to the Fort in October 2010, I took lots of pictures of the horse barn area figuring I'd never see it again. Then we camped at the Fort last Thanksgiving and it was all still there (thankfully). That area is one of my favorite things about the Fort. At this point, considering no construction has begun yet, I would guess it will all still be in place when we come this Christmas.

But for how long? Any new info? Should these projects be considered "delayed", or is this sort of timing par for the course with Disney?

[AC in A2......Aaron 693]

Would I be correct to assume that the current structures at the Settlement would not be torn down until the new structures are built near the outpost? Or is that just way too much common sense?

Just wondering bc still hoping all is intact in February too.

Just leave the Fort alone dang it! Unless of course they want to rebuild River Country sans the dreaded monstrosity rumored to be built there!

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Glad you got this topic going again, Dave! It's been way to quiet too long and I'm curious too (especially as we're creeping up on just under the 3 month mark 'til our trip!)

There doesn't *seem* to be a whole lot going on. But with so many "Fiends on the Scene" these days, I'm betting we can get someone to do a little snooping.

One of the original rumors was that they would be using some/all of the existing kennel buildings as part of the new barn area. So poking around there might be a good place to start.

[LONE-STAR 370]

Been wondering my self.

[Lou... 3,118]

One of the original rumors was that they would be using some/all of the existing kennel buildings as part of the new barn area.

No changes that I have noticed there.

Same good looking blonde at the window.

[ftwildernessguy 778]

On a related note, construction on the new luxury spa on the 3000 loop will begin this fall.

[Discamper 394]

I remember taking pictures of all the geological surveying around River Country and Pioneer Hall and Wilderness Dr late 2009 and still Disney has not started anything

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

On a related note, construction on the new luxury spa on the 3000 loop will begin this fall.

It's about damned time! I'm sick and tired of slumming it at the Grand Floridian.

[homebrew 14]

It's about damned time! I'm sick and tired of slumming it at the Grand Floridian.

:rofl3:

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Per Dave's request, I checked on all of this over the past weekend.

There are no signs that construction is about to begin anytime soon.

With regard to the permit application for the new horse barn and blacksmith shop, the permit was issued on April 21, 2011 and is good for two years. So it expires next April. I am sure it can be extended, if necessary.

With regard to the permit application for the new dining pavilion, the permit still hasn't been issued.

The third piece of the puzzle is a permit that was issued to allow work improving drainage along the road between the Fort and Wilderness Lodge. I saw no signs of that work beginning either.

So, bottom line is that nothing is happening yet.

TCD

[AC in A2......Aaron 693]

Thanks for the update TCD.....one can only cross fingers and hope that the project will fall by the wayside.

Not sure why someone would buy into Fort DVC (if they don't currently like to camp or stay in cabins there) when GF DVC is coming online with a rumored Poly DVC to follow?

[DaveInTN 3,247]

While I still expect this project to eventually commence, it wouldn't be the first time a large project was proposed and planned for the area between the Fort and WL and then scrapped.

http://www.disneydrawingboard.com/WDW/MKArea/Wilderness%20Junction/WildernessJunction.html

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Thanks for the update TCD.....one can only cross fingers and hope that the project will fall by the wayside.

Not sure why someone would buy into Fort DVC (if they don't currently like to camp or stay in cabins there) when GF DVC is coming online with a rumored Poly DVC to follow?

While I still expect this project to eventually commence, it wouldn't be the first time a large project was proposed and planned for the area between the Fort and WL and then scrapped.

http://www.disneydra...ssJunction.html

You are both right.

The thing is, they have spent a ton of money and effort on engineering plans and permits. I also have heard from reliable sources that there are actual plans and even scale models of the DVC buildings.

While I wish this wasn't going to happen, I believe that it will happen eventually.

TCD

[caveat lector 181]

I'm betting you're right. I'm just leaning heavily on the Disney interpretation of the word "eventually."

Based on current life expectancy actuarial tables, I hope it's on the typical Disney timeframe of 30-40 years

[ftwildernessguy 778]

I can't believe how long Disney has been riding this DVC thing. It is pure marketing genius, and despite the continued recession they keep building and people keep buying. I thought they would have hit the saturation point, but obviously not yet. The day will come, however, when one is built and remains half empty. I know several people who got involved and found out they couldn't afford it. They now pay the loan they took out for the initial purchase, the maintenance fees and then try to rent their points because they can't afford to use it. Meanwhile, I take the condo on wheels down for a week and a half every year for a fraction of what they are paying.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Meanwhile, I take the condo on wheels down for a week and a half every year for a fraction of what they are paying.

Maybe so, but they get to swim in a pool that is hair and bandaid free.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I can't believe how long Disney has been riding this DVC thing. It is pure marketing genius, and despite the continued recession they keep building and people keep buying. I thought they would have hit the saturation point, but obviously not yet. The day will come, however, when one is built and remains half empty. I know several people who got involved and found out they couldn't afford it. They now pay the loan they took out for the initial purchase, the maintenance fees and then try to rent their points because they can't afford to use it. Meanwhile, I take the condo on wheels down for a week and a half every year for a fraction of what they are paying.

I am with you.

It confounds me too.

I have gone to a couple of DVC open houses just to see if I am missing something. I can't understand why so many people find this to be an attractive thing to purchase. I do see the attraction it might have to a family who visits every year for a set amount of time. However, most people would be better off saving their money and looking for discounted rates and offers for their visits.

DVC is obviously a big money maker for Disney, and they clearly intend to ride this gravy train until folks stop jumping on.

TCD

[Lou... 3,118]

As you'd probably assume, I've picked up a lot of DVC owners and I've eavesdropped on hundreds of conversations over the years between DVC people.

I don't recall ever hearing a negative conversation regarding ownership.

I don't understand it either, but I guess a lot of people do.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

A lot of people find the idea of spending their vacation in a campground horribly ridiculous. To each his own. Disney is smart enough to provide a wide variety of lodging choices to suit the wide variety of tastes out there.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

One of the original rumors was that they would be using some/all of the existing kennel buildings as part of the new barn area. So poking around there might be a good place to start.

While doing some poking around on the SFWMD site, I discovered that they now include Google Earth files showing the areas covered by each permit application. This is a helpful feature for figuring out the areas involved with these new projects. So, here is the Google Earth image from the application for the new barn area:

This is a screen cap of the approved plans. The one difference I see is that the plans include a place for a new blacksmith shop which doesn't seem to coincide with the Google Earth boundaries for the application:

What is clear though, is that the former kennel building is outside of the scope of the work covered by this permit. This project wraps around that building. From how things are laid out, it looks like the plan would be to continue to use that building, with no changes, as the place to check in for trail rides. The proposed plans do not in any way impact the existing trail ride location.

TCD

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've never been able to imagine that area being "magical". The Outpost to me has always just been the gateway into the Fort. The current area of the horse barn and blacksmith shop at the Settlement is firmly embedded within the magic of Fort Wilderness. The proposed area of the new barns just seems to be outside the magic IMO. It's next to the parking lot, and subjected to constant bus traffic and outside noise.

Of course, if they build what is planned for the Settlement area, that too will be a parking lot subjected to constant traffic and noise. :'(

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've never been able to imagine that area being "magical". The Outpost to me has always just been the gateway into the Fort. The current area of the horse barn and blacksmith shop at the Settlement is firmly embedded within the magic of Fort Wilderness. The proposed area of the new barns just seems to be outside the magic IMO. It's next to the parking lot, and subjected to constant bus traffic and outside noise.

Of course, if they build what is planned for the Settlement area, that too will be a parking lot subjected to constant traffic and noise. :'(

You are right.

But, if this all happens, the new parking lot, which is going to be where the TCD operations sit now, will become the one with more traffic and noise. From what I have seen, the bus stops leaving the Fort are all going to be located adjacent to the new DVC resort. The beauty of this is that anyone visiting Trail's End or the HDDR will be dropped off right there, instead of the current location at the Outpost. Putting the bus stops here will allow the DVC resort and the Fort to share buses, and I'm sure the same buses will serve the Lodge too. That means that the buses will probably travel back and forth on the road between the Lodge and Fort instead of how they do it now with leaving the Lodge and driving to the Outpost.

If this is how it goes, there will not be as many people using the Fort parking lot as a way to avoid paying for parking at the theme parks. It would become inconvenient for them to park at the Outpost lot if the park buses are down at the Settlement. And, the DVC IM's will probably keep that lot properly policed to keep out non-guests.

So, I see the Outpost parking lot becoming less busy.

But, paving all the green space in the Settlement is going to be hard for me to take.

TCD

[rdancemom... Pam 113]

The third piece of the puzzle is a permit that was issued to allow work improving drainage along the road between the Fort and Wilderness Lodge. I saw no signs of that work beginning either.

So, bottom line is that nothing is happening yet.

TCD

I wondered if the lights at night we were seeing over at river country might have been related to the drainage work. It didn't seem like it, but we couldn't come up with an explanation for the bright lights at RC. When it was just me seeing them on a single night, I wondered, but then it was multiple nights. Starla & friends also spotted them from an MK boat on a different night so there's no doubt about it. For some reason, they were lighting up RC with large lights - one of them very bright & far above the treetops. I don't suppose you noticed anything there by chance?

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Thanks for the (as always) excellent reporting, TCD!

Being fans of the 300 loop - and in particular those sites closest to the dog walk entrance along the canal, we were starting to consider if the noise of moving the pavilion was going to finally make us find another favorite loop.

Looks like we're good for at least another year. :)

As for DVC, I think at some point someone thought that the Fort was a prime DVC location, but as time went on (and management likely changed) it seems that they've decided the DVC may be a better idea at "deluxe" locations like AKL, Contemp, GF, and I've heard rumors the Poly is on the list too.

Might make sense actually if you figure the target audience for DVC is folks with some "extra" cash laying around.

I'd also be willing to bet that Disney regularly goes through big, expenses exercises to determine what the next big construction project will be, and then shelves them for one reason or another. Even if the investment to that point is sizable, better to pull the plug before sinking many millions more in if the prognosis for success has changed.

I'm not keen to see a big change like this to the Fort, and I'm starting to wonder if Disney's thinking the same thing.

Since they continue to offer room promotions like crazy (even after Iger said a couple of years ago they were going to wean people off them), seems to me like the money would be better spent on theme park improvements as an enticement to get people to come regardless of room rates, vs just building more rooms they're going to have to discount to get anyone in them.

But that might just be wishful thinking on my part to want to see more cool stuff in the parks.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I wondered if the lights at night we were seeing over at river country might have been related to the drainage work. It didn't seem like it, but we couldn't come up with an explanation for the bright lights at RC. When it was just me seeing them on a single night, I wondered, but then it was multiple nights. Starla & friends also spotted them from an MK boat on a different night so there's no doubt about it. For some reason, they were lighting up RC with large lights - one of them very bright & far above the treetops. I don't suppose you noticed anything there by chance?

Pam- Good point. There is definitely a new light installed in the old River Country area. But, that area has always been lit at night. When we stayed at the Contemporary earlier this year for Leap Day, they had bright lights on at River Country all night, and I have noticed them before on late night returns to the Fort from the MK. This new light is way brighter than the old ones. But, other than that light, there is nothing new happening in the old River Country area at present. There are no permit applications (yet) for any work to be done in that area.

TCD