The importance of seat belts and safely securing your dogs!!!

[campingpixi 11]

Got my fingers crossed for ya and prayers running at the same time!! Hope everything works out!

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

[AuburnJen 772]

When we were at the dealer yesterday we had the same salesman as before. He remembered what interior we had because we wanted it for the dogs.

We were telling him about the accident and he asked if we were wearing seat belts (we were). He said he doesn't wear one.

We showed him the pics of the camper/truck on Brian's phone.

He's going to wear one now!

You know, I have a whole unit I teach my fifth graders about the three impacts of a car crash during their force and motion unit. I have parents who write me letters telling me how their whole family now wears seat belts.

Until you see it in person or on a video, people don't get it.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Camper? Check!

(no photo necessary - looks EXACTLY like the last one)

Truck? Check!

NOW WHEN DO WE GO CAMPING?!?!?!?

:jumpforjoy

Brian's been scrambling the past week and a half to get all the insurance stuff sorted out. Can you say almost as traumatic as the accident itself??

Replacing the camper ended up being easy after that - exact same year/model (a few months newer) was on the lot just waiting for us!

Truck was trickier but he came through on that big time too! 2001 Excursion, 109K, great shape, great price.

It needs a little work, but it's immaculately clean, one owner, spent its winters in FL and was very well taken care of by the same dealer selling it (got the full service record). It's also got some crazy gear ratio that apparently makes it perfect for towing (although not so great in the gas mileage dept around town - oh well). I drove it tonight - I feel like I'm in a freakin' bus!

At this rate we might even be able to keep our local Labor Day camping plans.

:jumpforjoy :jumpforjoy :jumpforjoy :jumpforjoy

[doodlebug....Cherie 461]

Yay :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Yay indeed!! I can now look at the counter in my signature and be happy again instead of just anxious and a little sad.

We're not 100% there yet, but we both feel a hell of a lot better about things in general today!

[wak648...Bill 94]

So in your honest opinion, should I crate or seatbelt my kids?

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Based on our experience, I vote crate.

The majority of the time a seat belt is probably fine - it would definitely keep your dog from becoming a projectile in your typical crash situation - and if you don't have the ability to do the crate option, I'd say at least use seat belts. Just one word of caution though - if you have a dog that's a chewer, you need to be careful about seat belts. I know of several dogs that have chewed through their own leashes, harnesses, even the seat belts in the car!

In our case seat belts would probably have caused more harm than good because of the rollover situation. I think there would have been the possibility of them staying in the car, but being injured because they were tossed around while belted in. While human seat belts keep your torso in place, dog seat belts really just keep them in the seats - they can still sit, stand and move around to some degree. That in and of itself would probably have resulted in some injuries in our case.

I also would worry that because they'd have been thrown around, there was the possibility of something breaking ON the harness or belt... which would have resulted in them either being thrown or just being able to bolt out of the vehicle once we'd finally stopped and being loose on the highway.

Crates protected our dogs in several ways - kept them IN the vehicle, kept the girls (both on the passenger side) from landing in all the glass from the blown out windows, protected them from being squished by stuff that flew around inside the vehicle (including tools, steel water bottles, etc.)

...and in Bz's case, her crate roof was actually bent down in the back about 4-6". (I don't want to think what that may have meant without a crate.)

We'll definitely be installing crates again in the new truck.

But then there's this Sunday, when we're taking Lyn with us to visit family. Truck won't be ready yet, and crate won't fit in the car, so she will be seat belted in the back.

We'll be driving extra carefully!

[LONE-STAR 370]

Never looked at this thread I just thought it was a safety message and I already wear my seatbelt and don't own a dog anymore. Wow so glad y'all are ok .

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Thanks :)

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

I wanted to give this a bump because it happened a year ago this weekend and I thought the message bears repeating this time of year when so many of you are traveling.

Original post is here

[doodlebug....Cherie 461]

It doesn't seem possible that it's been a year already, Mo!

[polkadotsuitcase 12]

I thought about you and this incident recently with that agility gal who crashed her car coming home late one night from an event -- the one where her six (?) dogs were ejected, a few killed, and one went missing (later found). I wonder if hers were crated or loose in the vehicle? I remembered your story and how your pups were safe because they were secure, instead of running around the highway (or worse).

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

I know the story, Kate - it was awful.

The woman is a pretty big deal in the agility world and some of her dogs were actually border collies. She was traveling home through the dessert in AZ from a trial in TX. She was in a Honda SUV of some sort (don't recall the model). She fell asleep at the wheel and rolled it (multiple times I think).

She had 6 dogs with her that WERE crated, but I'm not sure what kind of crates they were or if the crates were anchored in the vehicle or not. The crates were all ejected from the vehicle and then the dogs were apparently ejected from their crates (presumably they broke apart?)

One young puppy died at the scene. One of the border collies ran across the highway and was hit and killed. Another took off into the dessert and thankfully was found a day later. (the woman had broken ribs and other injuries and checked herself out of the emergency room to get a search underway)

The remaining dogs were injured but ok.

Photos of her vehicle looked like the roof was crushed almost to the seats. When I look at the photos of our Navigator after the crash, I can't imagine what a lesser vehicle would have tolerated.

Here are the photos of the damage for anyone interested http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradybzlyn/sets/72157627173219266/)

Our wire crates were pretty much wedged into the vehicle at the time of our crash, so none moved thankfully - especially since every window but the rear drivers side was completely shattered and gone. Thankfully none of the crates broke, but Bz's crate (in the way back and on the side we landed on) was bent quite a bit. Again, I think that was the vehicle more than anything.

This time around we have a much bigger vehicle (Ford Excursion) and Brian has anchored the crates in as securely as possible. He used heavy straps to anchor them to the platform they sit on. The only way for any of them to move would be if all 3 AND the platform moved all at once.

One other thing we've changed is that we now have a pair of bolt cutters zip tied to Lyn's crate. In the crash her crate was behind the passenger seat, which is the side we landed on, and the side the crate door was on. I couldn't get her out that way as I couldn't convince her to go "down" to the ground to crawl out - just as well as the ground was covered with shattered glass. I ended up forcing the back of the crate to unhook and bending it towards me enough so she could hop out. Bolt cutters would have made that much easier.

[polkadotsuitcase 12]

Yeah, that was a pretty sad story all the way around. Didn't she also hit a tractor trailer? I thought it was an amazingly serious crash. I was so relieved when they found the missing dog.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Not sure about the exact circumstances of the crash, but one account is here...

http://dogtime.com/agility-trainer-and-six-dogs-crash-in-the-desert.html

[Judy in Texas 150]

I thought it might have been after the agility event I attended here in Fort Worth; but, it was after an Odessa TX event. So sad.

[PJ 2]

I'm new to the boards but read this with interest - our accident 8 weeks ago didn't have as happy an outcome - we lost Abby, one of our sweet Australian Terriers, and the other Koda, wasn't physically injured but hasn't been the same since.

DH had just dropped me off for my last day at work before retirement, and before being scheduled to leave a week later for our new lives as full-time RV-ers. Abby (9) and Koda (7) were riding (unrestrained) in the back seat of the Jeep, when he was rear-ended at a stoplight by a woman going about 50. Jeep was totaled.

When I arrived on the scene to get the 2 pups to the emergency vet, Koda seemed fine. Abby was curled up quietly in the back seat, and didn't yelp when I wrapped her in a blanket and carried her to the car so I hoped she wasn't severely injured. The vet said later it was just because she was too week to cry out. By the end of the day it was clear we had to let her go.

Koda didn't sustain any physical injuries, but where both pups used to love nothing more than spending hours in the Jeep with us touring the countrysides, now we can barely get him into the (new) Jeep, and once he in, he pants constantly, keeps pawing at me, can't get comfortable. We've tried a thundershirt (supposedly good for travel anxiety), me sitting in the back seat with him, giving him a special rawhide stuffed with snausage to distract him - so far nothing has helped. Its really heartbreaking.

We also went through the frustration of having to quickly replace the Jeep, all the equipment to tow it behind the motor home, quickly re-plan our initial full-timers travel schedule and campground reservations, deal with the loss of Abby, all while DH was trying to recover from his (fortunately not serious but painful) injuries.

Now that I'm retired and actually have free time I hope to be able to spend some more time on the boards. (and hopefully will have some more positive things to share) - we've been to WDW 30+ times, most in one RV or another at the Fort.

Haven't addresed alternatives for trying crating in the Jeep yet - for now immediate concern is trying to help Koda get through this. Would prefer not to resort to meds, but afraid it may come to that. Would appreciate any suggestions people may have!

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

:insanity:

Sorry for you lose - it's always tough to lose a furbaby. We sometimes carry a mini-poodle with us and have a "purse" that hooks to her collar and straps between the front seats. She has room to look out or to lay down inside. They also make them for large dogs, so you might want to consider something like that.

[PureTcrazy...rita 380]

Awww I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your beloved pet. I am not an expert on this subject at all. My Lola was very hyper in the car and panted etc. Once I got the safety carrier she did better. Maybe she felt more in control? IDK. Here is a link to a thread where we talked about taking our pets in the car. http://www.fortfiends.net/forum/topic/1987-pet-safety-in-your-automobile/

and :welcome: to our group!

Please also go to the introduction thread and introduce yourself. I'm afraid everyone won't find you here! Jump in and have some fun!

http://www.fortfiends.net/forum/topic/199-please-introduce-yourself/page__st__2440

[Gots2pitt.. Jeff 64]

PJ, sorry to hear of your family's loss. Welcome to Fort Fiends!

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Welcome to the group PJ and I'm so sorry to hear of your accident and your loss.

Definitely possible that Koda is experiencing major anxiety over riding in the car again after the accident, especially if the new Jeep is very similar to the old one. It's possible that a crate may actually help with that as it would change the environment somewhat for Koda when riding - particularly if you go with a vari-kennel type crate.

I know some people that have had some luck with the thundershirt for anxiety. Some have also tried some herbal remedies such as Bach's Rescue Remedy or Ark Natural's Happy Traveler. Something else people have had some success with is some of the pheromone sprays. It also might be possible to desensitize Koda to the car again by taking really short rides to "happy places" and including lots of encouragement and treats and then building up to longer rides until he's comfortable again.

We were so amazingly fortunate that after our accident none of our dogs were hesitant to get in the car again. We were very worried about that. We think that may be because they really didn't "experienced" the accident very traumatically. They were all likely sleeping when it happened, so our best guess is that they just suddenly got woken up by being tossed around inside their crates, and since they didn't get injured, they kind of took it all in stride.

I wish you all the best of luck with Koda. Hopefully he can get back to the point where he enjoys traveling again soon!

[fladogfan aka Gretchen 259]

Oh Monique, what a terrible experience. Was reading along thinking this just happened and came to the August 1 post. THEN I noticed 2011. So glad you and your loved ones were OK. I'm a firm believer in seat belts. Wonderful invention! I've been hooking our dogs, 11# poms, in their harnesses with the back seat belts. But you are right, it gives them too much move around room and in an accident they could be hurt. So will be shopping for a crate and will use seat belt to secure that. Problem will be, mil and her 12# poodle who live with us. She just lets her dog have the run of the vehicle. Will try to get her to read this thread. Hope all 3 dogs will share same crate. We have an Avalanche, so limited space to use a crate when 3 humans in truck.

God is Good that's for sure, I'm so glad you use seat belts.

PJ, what a horrible way to start retirement, very sorry for the loss of your Abby, so sad. Good that hubby and Koda survived.

Monique has some good ideas for helping Koda recover from the terror of the accident. The short trips are good, you might even start by just sitting in the Jeep, petting him for a minute or two every day until he can relax, then try turning the engine on and sit some more. Then a short move down the drive. I'm sure you get the idea. Will be thinking of you and praying all goes well.

OH and welcome !!

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

God is Good that's for sure, I'm so glad you use seat belts.

Thanks Gretchen - and I hope you can convince your MIL that she's really taking a chance with her beloved pet.

Even if you all are the best drivers on the planet, you can't control what other people will do. In both our case and PJ's the accidents were caused by someone else.

I know someone who was riding in her minivan with her border collie loose in the vehicle when she was plowed into at an intersection. Her 40-ish lb dog was ejected from the van. Thankfully she lived, but due to trauma from the accident the dog suffered severe pancreatitis and almost didn't make it. She eventually recovered, but only after extensive treatment and THOUSANDS of dollars worth of vet care.

Thankfully she and her 3 children were wearing their seatbelts and were ok.

I saw a car the other day with a small dog bouncing around in the back window and it just made me cringe.

Being on the road these days is a dicey proposition for full-sized humans safely seat-belted in as it is. Put a much smaller, unrestrained pet in the mix, that can so easily become a projectile (even if you have to stop fast doing 20 mph) and the risk is huge.

...you might even start by just sitting in the Jeep, petting him for a minute or two every day until he can relax, then try turning the engine on and sit some more.

Really great suggestions!

[PJ 2]

I've been reading up on the natural remedies you suggested, and they sound promising. We decided to take Koda to a vet tomorrow while we've got the RV in for service, and hopefully we'll have some things to try.

Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions!