Lightbikes Trip Report

[lightbikes 73]

Well the lights are off the bikes and it’s time to say goodbye from 1511!  We’ve been here for our two months and are all packed up and ready to head for home first thing tomorrow morning.

 

It’s time to answer the question we’ve been getting from everyone:  Are we coming back next year?  And the answer is not likely.  It breaks our hearts to say it but I think our time of coming down to stay for months at a time has come to an end.

Where to start?  All the comments I will make have been made on this forum in many other places and by people more articulate than I am but for us they bear summarizing.

 

First, is the simple fact that the people in charge at the Fort have no concept of pricing vs quality of experience.  The price here has simply gone through the roof.  And without any discount whatsoever anymore we simply can’t justify laying out that kind of money for our break away from the cold.  If there was a commensurate increase in the quality of service that they are providing there could be some arguments for justifying it; but simply saying well it is Disney and it is the Fort doesn’t cut it anymore.

 

It has been a frustrating couple of months being here.  As I’ve mentioned before the sheer audacity of telling adults they have to be out of the hot tub by 8 or 9 in the evening is just nuts.  Disney management wants us all to come, spend al day in the parks and spend your money on our junk and then when you are done you aren’t entitled to sit in a hot tub after 9. 

 

The Fort still hasn’t dealt with the morons who let their underage children drive the golf carts.  Nor have they dealt with the “drunken hooligans” who seem to be of the opinion that they can come in on Friday night, disturb everyone’s quiet evenings with their boom boxes and parties and leave a mess on Sunday.  For the first time ever I had evenings when I did not feel safe leaving the RV to go out.  There were simply too many people around who were acting in such a fashion this old lady wasn’t going outside.  Not to mention the fact that riding the bikes has seemed like a contest between us and the golf carts.  We know we’re going to lose and be the ones driven off the street.

 

And taking about spending money on their junk this quality of merchandise has gone down as the price has gone up.  I have a theory about the shirts; every year from the past three has seen 2 oz of weight come out of the cotton with every $5.00 increase in price.  We are now being charge $35.00 for a ladies t-shirt that is thinner then a piece of wrapping tissue!!!!  The cheaper the quality, the higher the price.

 

The same has started to apply to the food service.  Portions are steadily getting smaller, prices are steadily climbing.  Again if the quality were going up that might be acceptable, but the quality isn’t any better and in some cases is worse.  And since Pecos Bill’s no longer does Taco Salads in the Taco bowl they’ve lost me as a customer.  That was my favourite treat in the Magic Kingdom!!!!.

 

I know I’ve already ranted about the attitude of so many CMs but it bears mentioning again.  These folks are being pushed out far too soon without adequate training.  Nobody bothers to explain that the Disney way is that the guests experience is what matters.  DO NOT LIE TO THE GUESTS.  Many, many of us have been coming for a long, long, long time.  We know what should be a standard Disney answer but now CMs just make up whatever THEY want just to answer/satisfy a guest and make them go away.  Whether what they have just said is accurate or not doesn’t matter a rat’s a**, the guest is gone and will only wind up trying to find someone else to get an accurate answer from.  But that doesn’t matter. 

 

And then we have the CM here at the Fort who told me the Yellow bus turns Purple – sorry I still can’t let go of that one. 

 

And this brings me to the ubiquitous Magic Band.  There is nothing magical about that piece of plastic/rubber.  It is a colossal pain in the butt.  You get on-line and finally manage to score 3 fast passes.  Yippee Skippee.  But the day you get to the park you meet up with friends who’s times are slightly different.  So you go to one of the kiosks and get them to change your times so you all overlap slightly so you can do the rides.  But what happens when you get to the ride?   Mickey doesn’t go green – he goes blue!  Three times!!!!!  And then the CM who’s voice still hasn’t stopped cracking yells at you and tells you to get out of the line because “you don’t have a fast-pass”.  The folks with you touch their bands twice each and then they finally go green but you stay blue.  Finally after arguing for 10’ the CM grudgingly allows you in.  Enough already.  The Magic Band system is simply not robust enough yet to handle everything they have put on the system.  Disney management needs to back off trying to link everything from my bathroom breaks, to dinner reservations, to hotel room keys, to fast passes to the same system.  Settle for the fast passes and let’s move on.

 

And the list could go on and on.  I suspect many of you could add your own particular issue.  For us the bottom line is we’ve come to the conclusion it is time to look to winter somewhere else.  We’re looking at staying off-site and just coming in for the days we want to spend in the Parks.

 

Next year we’re going into our DVC resort for Christmas.  For the first time in 12 years we won’t be spending Christmas at the Fort.  Are there things we’ll miss?  Absolutely.  First and foremost we won’t see Dave’s Castle.  That’s been our favourite thing about the Fort at Christmas.  We won’t see everyone’s decorations.  But on the other hand a lot of folks have stopped decorating anyways or have stopped coming.  We won’t be on the beach on New Year’s to see the fireworks.  We won’t see many of the friends we’ve made here, both staff and other guests. 

 

I will continue to be a lurker on this and other websites watching to see how things are going here at the Fort.  If we see that there are changes that seem positive we may reconsider but if we had to make the decision today the answer will be nope, not coming back.

 

What bothers us the most is that despite my comments to management here at all levels there won’t be any changes.  Disney doesn’t care that a few people are not feeling the magic anymore.  They know that there are lots and lots of other people willing to come in and take our place.  However next year they won’t be getting our $4,500.00.

 

We’ve asked our TA to keep an eye on the rates and if there is a change, or if some kind of discount becomes available we may reconsider but otherwise lightbikes has left the Park.

 

Happy travels everyone and keep posting about the Fort and what’s happening here. 

 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

I'm in and I'm first. Now I have to ho back and read it. Lol.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

Ok. I guess this isn't going to be a trip report.

I wish I could disagree with what your saying but for the most part your right.

Hopefully the fort will get some new management and things will change.

[BeckersDadJohn 44]

Oh no trip report.

[sherryberry 35]

Wow. When we were there last month, I told Kenneth that I would love to do this for a couple of months (not that we really could, because of work). You do have some valid points. I'm sorry to hear that you won't return next year, but maybe you can go by and enjoy some of the things you love about the Fort while visiting.

[Humphrey Bear…Rob 42]

From one who was looking forward to a time when I might be able to stay longer than a week or so this is very sad.

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

While I agree with some of what you say, I don't understand the part about not feeling safe at all. I'd stay at the Fort (and actually have) alone with my son. I've never felt unsafe there. 

 

Now the female shirts, that's true, but it's also some weird fashion trend that isn't just at Disney. 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

A lot of really great comments... sorry to hear that you won't be back, but (hopefully) it this happens enough, Disney will start to make some changes.  Unfortunately, most people under the age of 30-35 do not understand common courtesy or respect, which means that this is who will be paying Disney to fill the parks and the campground.  Unless Disney notice, that their parks and resorts (incl the Fort) are being torn up (aka costing them money)... they will not make the necessary changes.  That breaks my heart.

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

Great comments.  Also sorry to hear that you won't be back.  

 

The comment that disturbs me the most is the one about not feeling safe.  I've never experienced that at the Fort.  Could you have felt differently if you'd been in another loop?

 

We spent three weeks at the Fort over Halloween and are hoping for four weeks this fall.  Always stay in a premium loop.  The only problem we had was on Halloween night -- the crowd in 700 loop was so bad that we couldn't have gotten off our site if we'd wanted to.  But I did feel safe sitting out under the awning.

[lightbikes 73]

I guess this isn't going to be a trip report.

 

 

         Sorry Ray, it’s less about going to the Parks and more about Disney in general – if it’s in the wrong place would the admins please move it?

 

 

 

The comment that disturbs me the most is the one about not feeling safe.  I've never experienced that at the Fort.  Could you have felt differently if you'd been in another loop?

 

 

         Aka Gwen – I don’t know if another loop would be different. 

 

Certainly we are tucked back in here but when people come right under your awning past your window on their way to another site in another loop it’s pretty startling; and these weren’t kids these were 20 somethings.

 

Also when I spoke to one adult on another occasion about almost being run over by their child driving a golf cart I was “we can do what the F--- we want and you can go f--- yourself” so I find that pretty intimidating. 

 

I think Nicole hit’s the nail on the head

 

         Unfortunately, most people under the age of 30-35 do not understand common courtesy or respect, which means that this is who will be paying Disney to fill the parks and the campground.

 

Anyways – we’re on our way – I’ll pop back in when we’re home

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

Safe travels.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Wow, what a sad post.  I'd like to hear some more details about what you're referring to here.  What CM's do you think were lying to you, and about what?
 

I know I’ve already ranted about the attitude of so many CMs but it bears mentioning again.  These folks are being pushed out far too soon without adequate training.  Nobody bothers to explain that the Disney way is that the guests experience is what matters.  DO NOT LIE TO THE GUESTS.  Many, many of us have been coming for a long, long, long time.  We know what should be a standard Disney answer but now CMs just make up whatever THEY want just to answer/satisfy a guest and make them go away.  Whether what they have just said is accurate or not doesn’t matter a rat’s a**, the guest is gone and will only wind up trying to find someone else to get an accurate answer from.  But that doesn’t matter.

Two of my daughters just completed stints in the Disney College Program, and making the guest experience magical was something that was emphasized to them over and over again.  It's an interesting fact to me that Fort Wilderness is the only resort that does not have DCP interns on their staff.  We have all run into an occasional CM who was having a bad day, but your statement seems to be referring to something completely different, and I'm interested in hearing more about it.

 

TCD

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

  We have all run into an occasional CM who was having a bad day, but your statement seems to be referring to something completely different, and I'm interested in hearing more about it.

 

TCD

Me as well. I have only had that happen with one person during all our stays and that was over 3 years ago. The CM's that we encounter from site staff to back office management have always been super to deal with.

[lightbikes 73]

Well we’re home – temperature outside right now is -19C or -2 F – yikes!!!!  And people wonder why we like to go away in the winter!!!

 

You’re right TCD and Grandma and Grumpy - I am referencing a specific incident – several actually. 

 

1)     We had friends come over from Tampa to spend one of our weekends park hopping with us.  They booked into Coronado Springs.   One night we wound up at Downtown Disney for dinner at Earls.  When we left three of us decided to go back to Magic Kingdom and the others headed for their hotel.  As we went out to the busses we all spotted a bus at the Coronado Springs so they sprinted to catch it. The marquee on both the front and side said Coronado Springs.  Our friends all got on it to go to Coronado.  The bus went straight to Animal Kingdom Lodge.  According to the driver that’s where he was heading and he claimed his marquee indicated that.  Well everyone on the bus had seen CS, but the driver was in charge.  He let everyone off the bus and said he was headed back to Downtown.  All the people who wanted to go to Coronado were told they could take the bus to Animal Kingdom and catch their bus there.

Our friend pointed out that it was now 9:30 at night, and AK had closed at 6 that night.  No bus there.  They were then told to go to DHS and catch a bus there.  Same problem – it was now getting close to 9:45 and they would have had to wait for a bus to DHS then hope it wasn’t to late for the CS bus to bring them all back.   Concierge solution – “call a cab”.   Hardly the “Disney Magic” one would expect.

 

2)     Last spring we had stayed over for the flower festival.  On one weekend there was a very large group coming in; so large in fact that everyone in the loop had to be evicted.  Some folks just up and left however we were booked straight through until the middle of April and declined to be evicted.  Instead we were put into a cabin for the weekend at Disney’s expense.  It was supposed to be for two nights but in order to allow for Disney and the incoming group to set up it wound up being for four.  This group brought in a catering truck, massive stoves, trailers and dozens of tents.  When they left they left a mess.  It took the operations folks 4 days to get everything cleaned up and back to “normal”.  We cleaned up our own site so we could move back on it quickly.  When we discussed the whole thing with a Disney manager afterward we were told that in the future large groups like that would NOT be put into the 1500 loop ever again because it simply isn’t big enough.  Well, as we were packing up to head home this past Thursday what arrives but a big catering truck and there were people walking around and pointing to the various sites determining where they were going to set up their stuff.  I see from a topic in the General Discussion “Does this seem crowded” that it’s the same bunch back in 1500 that were there last year.   Where they were “never going to be” again.

 

3)     I had a discussion with a CM on the front desk at the Fort who insisted that the Yellow bus turned Purple and we could use that to go to Wilderness pool/hot tub.  I pointed out that the yellow bus did not turn purple and that only at the Settlement and Outpost would they meet.  He insisted I was wrong.  Now I know better than to believe what he said but imagine if you’re a newcomer to the Fort and are told that the Yellow bus turns into the Purple and you can use it to get over to the Wilderness pool?  You are going to be lost If a CM can’t provide accurate information, don’t provide any at all. 

 

4)     Or we could talk about the front manager who tried to tell me that the insurance at the pool was tied up with the certification of the life guards.  Well it hasn’t been that way in 20 years why would it change now?  And we all know that Disney acts as it’s own insurer so that was a crock of BS just to make me go away and stop complaining about the closure of the hot tub at the Meadows pool.

 

5)     We wanted to get the little band additions that indicated we were both DVC members and Annual Passholders.  We went to Guest Relations and were told they were shipped with our Magic Bands and were in the box.  Well they weren’t so we wanted to know where to get them.  Part of the issue is bands can’t be shipped to Canada so they are held at the front desk for our arrival.  Turned out the DVC slides were relatively easy.  We ran into a DVC rep who was off duty and he went off to his bag and brought us back two.   The passholder slide was a completely different matter.  We happened to be in conversation with a CM who does training about something else entirely but the subject came up.  She said her understanding was they were available at Guest Relations but she didn’t know for sure and would we let her know when we got ours.  Off we trotted.  According to the CM at Guest Relations they never had them and never would.  We should check the places where they sell the Magic Bands.  Tried that and were told no we should try the Ticket booths.  Tried that and were told no it was at Guest Relations at Downtown Disney.  Tired that and were told no it would be in the Parks.  You can see the circular runaround we were on.  So we set ourselves a challenge.  We were going to find these if it killed us!  Every time we went to one of the parks we went to Guest Relations and asked; no love at Epcot, no love at Animal Kingdom, but finally at DHS we got them.  At Guest Relations.  We went back to Magic Kingdom to the original CM and told her what we found out.  She was grateful and said she’d pass it on.  And it only took 8 days!!!! 

 

Unfortunately I could keep on adding to these incidents.    

 

Like you; I can also list numerous CMs who go out of their way and above and beyond to try and make the guests experience better.  And I’ve met lots of them.   Like that trainer in Magic Kingdom who told us she didn’t know for sure where the slides were, but she gave us a starting point and was grateful when we came back and told her what we learned.  Or like the CM at the Fort who agreed with me that the problem is the people who are running the campground think they are running a hotel.  Or like the DVC guide who took his personal time to get us our DVC IDs.  Or all the staff at both the Meadows and Settlement trading posts who always have a hug and a hello and welcome back for us when we arrive.  Yes there are lots of great CMs and your daughters are likely to be like that too.  But that’s because they are actually thoughtful, intelligent young women who were raised in the Disney tradition.  Too many of the new staff haven’t been.  Despite the lip service paid to the expression not everyone remembers that it was “all started by a mouse”.

 

Do I feel that CMs lie deliberately.  No probably not, but their failure to ensure that the information they give out is accurate is inexcusable.  My opinion, and it’s only my opinion, is that they are afraid that if they don’t provide an answer immediately they could very well be vulnerable in their job for failing to “move the guest along”.  Consequently they pass along whatever seems quick and easy.  Not necessarily accurate.

 

I’d like to know whatever happened to the CM who said, “I don’t know, but come along with me and we will find someone who does know”?

 

We had a senior CM tell us that Disney was now all about moving forward.  Well, the best part of being at the Fort was that it was a tiny perfect little jewel, frozen in time, that was about the best part of Disney:  families being together.  Now even the Fort is being moved forward to only care about the bottom line. 

 

I don’t want to come off as a constantly cranky old lady and I know that’s how I seem.  Our whole family has been in love with Disney since our first trip in 1983.  We were sad to leave last Thursday but it sure looks like it’s time for us to move on.  We are still DVC members and can use our points to come down and stay or  we will stay off property.  And maybe we’ll get really lucky and someone with some common sense will step in and make the necessary changes to keep the Fort the way it should be.  

 

And on a completely different note I still need to find out if the Partners statue is going to be there when they remove the boards, or if it’s going to be a giant bronze statue of Elsa mounted on Sven looking out over her new kingdom!!!!! 

[Beckers 1,136]

And on a completely different note I still need to find out if the Partners statue is going to be there when they remove the boards, or if it’s going to be a giant bronze statue of Elsa mounted on Sven looking out over her new kingdom!!!!!

Noooooooooooooooooooo

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Wow, that's a lot of bad stuff that happened to you.

I have a question about this point:
 

3)     I had a discussion with a CM on the front desk at the Fort who insisted that the Yellow bus turned Purple and we could use that to go to Wilderness pool/hot tub.  I pointed out that the yellow bus did not turn purple and that only at the Settlement and Outpost would they meet.  He insisted I was wrong.  Now I know better than to believe what he said but imagine if you’re a newcomer to the Fort and are told that the Yellow bus turns into the Purple and you can use it to get over to the Wilderness pool?  You are going to be lost If a CM can’t provide accurate information, don’t provide any at all. 

Was a CM telling you it was OK to pool hop over to Wilderness Lodge?

 

It also sounds like the CM gave you correct information about how to get to Wilderness Lodge, but got the details wrong.  The Yellow bus does not become a Purple route bus, but it does become the Wilderness Lodge bus when it reaches the Settlement Bus Stop.

 

TCD
 

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

Wow, that's a lot of bad stuff that happened to you.

I have a question about this point:

 

Was a CM telling you it was OK to pool hop over to Wilderness Lodge?

 

It also sounds like the CM gave you correct information about how to get to Wilderness Lodge, but got the details wrong.  The Yellow bus does not become a Purple route bus, but it does become the Wilderness Lodge bus when it reaches the Settlement Bus Stop.

 

TCD

 

It actually USED to be that way.

 

The Yellow used to become Purple, but did not run to the Wilderness Lodge.

 

The Orange used to only run down the center of the campground, and DID become the Wilderness Lodge bus.

 

But when the cabin dwellers complained that it took two buses to get to the Meadows area, they swapped it all around.

 

Now Orange runs down the center and through the cabins.

 

Purple is only Purple (Cabins and 2000, Group Camping)

 

Yellow becomes the Wilderness Lodge bus.

 

Sometimes when crowds are light, Purple is abandoned and Orange also covers Loop 2000 and Group Camping.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

It just occurred to me that Lightbikes maybe wanted to take a bus to the cabin pool and hot tub, which I believe is called the Wilderness Pool on the official Fort map. 

 

But, I'm not sure why you'd need to do that from the 1500 loop.

 

TCD

[lightbikes 73]

Carol - you are correct -

"It actually USED to be that way.  The Yellow used to become Purple, but did not run to the Wilderness Lodge.

The Orange used to only run down the center of the campground, and DID become the Wilderness Lodge bus."

 which was what I was trying to point out to the CM at the front desk at the Fort - however it hasn't been that way in a very long time ( like 8 years I think? ??)

 

And TCD - you are also correct, but the CM was not telling me to go to Wilderness Lodge pool/hot tub - he was telling me to use the Yellow/Purple combo to go to the Wilderness Pool by the cabins so that we could use the hot tub there since it is available 24 hours.  The reason he told us to do that was because they turned off the jets and heat in the hot tub at the Meadows pool at 8 and 9 when the life guards left.  

 

We did NOT want to take a bus to a hot tub when there was a perfectly good one right across the road.  They just don't want to keep it open!  

 

BTW I doubt very much they would want the six of us, some well past their prime shape,  in wet bathing suits/towels shivering on the bus!!! LOL what a sight that would have been.

 

And yes it sure felt like a lot of bad stuff - but when I talk to other people they all are/were having the same kind of crap happen to them.  I think that because we were there for two solid months that we got to see/experience a lot of the problems that have developed at both the Parks and the Fort.   Most people will get hit with one or two things and are there for a week or two.  When you're there for eight weeks and it's two things a week then it's 16 separate and distinct events so it is a big pile of crap!!!!

 

And it makes you grumpy!!!!

 

And in complete honesty and full disclosure I admit we feel very possessive about our little campsite at the Fort and our memories of the Parks - so every "infraction" seems like an assault on something precious.  And I don't think we're alone in that.  Almost everyone we encounter who has been a longtime Fort and Disney fan is outraged at many of the changes we are seeing.

 

 

Sorry I can get very long-winded!

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

...he was telling me to use the Yellow/Purple combo to go to the Wilderness Pool by the cabins so that we could use the hot tub there since it is available 24 hours.  The reason he told us to do that was because they turned off the jets and heat in the hot tub at the Meadows pool at 8 and 9 when the life guards left.  

 

Well shoot - that makes no sense at all.  It's an insurance issue at one pool but not the other?

 

 

...BTW I doubt very much they would want the six of us, some well past their prime shape,  in wet bathing suits/towels shivering on the bus!!! LOL what a sight that would have been.

 

Well maybe it would have served them right. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

Well shoot - that makes no sense at all. It's an insurance issue at one pool but not the other?

There have never been life guards at the cabin pool and it is partially fenced. This all started after that kid drowned last/two years ago at POP.

[lightbikes 73]

Mo  -

I do not understand the insurance issue either - it makes no sense.  A  weekend duty manager at the Fort informed me that the life guards certification depended on the pool and hot tub at Meadows being closed.   That is a crock because back in the day when I was young I worked as a life guard and my certification depended on satisfying a gruelling exam - the pools I worked at were covered by the City's insurance - and as has been pointed out to me by another manager Disney is their own insurer.  

 

Grumpy and Grandma -

According to said weekend duty manager, because there are never life guards at the cabin pool there isn't an issue about the hot tub being left open/on 24/7.  

 

Again the contradictory stories they tell to make you go away and stop being a bother!!!  And they don't even realize that what they say makes no sense at all.  

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

There have never been life guards at the cabin pool and it is partially fenced. This all started after that kid drowned last/two years ago at POP.

 

True - although partially fenced still isn't fenced, and I doubt the insurance company considers it fenced (assuming that's a real thing and not just an excuse that was given). 

 

And speaking of... whatever happened to the big announcement after that incident that ALL resort pools would be fenced? 

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Found the post when the info first surfaced a year and a half ago...

http://www.fortfiends.net/forum/topic/11092-we-might-be-getting-a-fence-and-gates-at-the-fort-pool/?p=303427

 

And here was the officially confirmed info...

 

 

Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:25 PM

 

There is now internal info to confirm as well.  Among the info confirmed...

• There will be new operating and lifeguard hours for all Walt Disney World Resort feature and popular pools
• Lifeguards will be present during operating hours of all currently guarded pools
• Quiet pools will remain unguarded and open 24 hours a day

Implementation of these changes will start with Art of Animation, Pop Century and All-Stars Resorts on September 29th and is expected to be complete in November.

 

In addition WDW has confirmed that they are in the process of adding pool fences as part of their regular refurbishment process.  No exact timeline given for specific resorts.

 

So... 18 months later and all the Fort has is still one partially fenced pool?

[lightbikes 73]

Yep - so it seems

 

and they wonder why guests get frustrated?  confused?  angry?