Pet loops

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

We're another family, that has a child who is unbelievably afraid of dogs.  Even though she is turning 7 in a couple of weeks and almost comes up to my chest...she will literally try to climb up me (like a tree) if a dog comes our way.  Poor baby is incredibly scared of the animals.  Even if the owner has them on a leash, if the dog notices her...she gets upset.

 

Having said that, if there are dogs in our loop, we will say something to Disney.  The only exception we've had over the years, is owners who have small dogs (very small,10lbs and under)  AND if the owner has them on a leash.  If the dog ran at her, she would scream...but if the owner walked by, she would be okay.  Also, in the past we've stayed in RV spots and the owners kept those small dogs inside the rig.  This year, we're slated to stay in the 1500 loop, so dogs would be more of an issue as most of those spots are occupied by tent dwellers. 

 

I know that for many families, dogs really are "part of the family" however... if that's the case, I feel that those families really need to find a pet loop.

 

Guess I would have to agree with Ken above me and say... "rant over"  :)

[Lou... 3,118]

Regardless of the pet loop policy, and as stated by others, there can, and probably will be, dogs in whatever loop you're in.

They may be staying in your loop, or people staying in other loops may be walking them around. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise.

 

If it's a serious issue for those with kids that are afraid of dogs, they should rethink about staying at the Fort where it's known ahead of time that it's going to occur. It is what it is, and it's not going change in the near term.

 

Talking to management about dogs in a non-pet loop will probably not result in any lasting or meaningful action.

What would be considered an appropriate response, asking those people to leave?

And even if they did not allow guests with dogs to stay in certain loops, there will still people walking their dogs in common areas, through the pet, and non-pet loops.

[caveat lector 181]

?....

If it's a serious issue for those with kids that are afraid of dogs, they should rethink about staying at the Fort where it's known ahead of time that it's going to occur. It is what it is, and it's not going change in the near term.

 

This is sage and thoughtful advice.

[articfox676 11]

Just wondering is there a limit to the number of dogs each campsite can bring?

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

Regardless of the pet loop policy, and as stated by others, there can, and probably will be, dogs in whatever loop you're in.

They may be staying your loop, or people staying in other loops may be walking them around. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise.

 

If it's a serious issue for those with kids that are afraid of dogs, they should rethink about staying at the Fort where it's known ahead of time that it's going to occur. It is what it is, and it's not going change in the near term.

 

Talking to management about dogs in a non-pet loop will probably not result in any lasting or meaningful action.

What would be considered an appropriate response, asking those people to leave?

And even if they did not allow guests with dogs to stay in certain loops, there will still people walking their dogs through the loops, pet or non-pet loops.

The appropriate response is for Disney to follow their own rules. If a guest has a severe medical response to dogs - allergic or anxiety- then Disney would be liable if they sued ... and we know someone will. Because there is a written policy that is commonly ignored by the Fort CMs and Security, Disney would have to suck it up in Court. They have to pay, and it is us that would pay for it.

You check into a non-pet loop because you didn't tell them you have a dog ... tell them to leave.

Not a popular solution, but I'd rather see them enforce the rules than have to pay because Disney got sued.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

The appropriate response is for Disney to follow their own rules. If a guest has a severe medical response to dogs - allergic or anxiety- then Disney would be liable if they sued ... and we know someone will. Because there is a written policy that is commonly ignored by the Fort CMs and Security, Disney would have to suck it up in Court. They have to pay, and it is us that would pay for it.

You check into a non-pet loop because you didn't tell them you have a dog ... tell them to leave.

Not a popular solution, but I'd rather see them enforce the rules than have to pay because Disney got sued.

 

 

I agree... except I would say that I'd want Disney to enforce the rules, because they are the rules.  Everyone should have the right to enjoy the parks and this includes the resort that you stay at.  Accountability is huge in my book.  If Disney has non-pet loops, then they offer non-pet loops and families with children (or adults) who are afraid (or simply don't like) dogs, should have the right to stay in those loops...without the concern of their family members being afraid.   People walking their pets is different because the pet is gone in a few moments... if the dog (or dogs) was in the loop next to us, it would create an issue our entire stay.

[Lou... 3,118]

This is sage and thoughtful advice.

 

I had to look that one up.

 

sage....1a :  wise through reflection and experience

 

Just wondering is there a limit to the number of dogs each campsite can bring?

 

Four

 

You check into a non-pet loop because you didn't tell them you have a dog ... tell them to leave.

 

 

Talk about opening up a huge can of worms.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

The appropriate response is for Disney to follow their own rules. If a guest has a severe medical response to dogs - allergic or anxiety- then Disney would be liable if they sued ... and we know someone will. Because there is a written policy that is commonly ignored by the Fort CMs and Security, Disney would have to suck it up in Court. They have to pay, and it is us that would pay for it.

You check into a non-pet loop because you didn't tell them you have a dog ... tell them to leave.

Not a popular solution, but I'd rather see them enforce the rules than have to pay because Disney got sued.

 

 

I agree... except I would say that I'd want Disney to enforce the rules, because they are the rules.  Everyone should have the right to enjoy the parks and this includes the resort that you stay at.  Accountability is huge in my book.  If Disney has non-pet loops, then they offer non-pet loops and families with children (or adults) who are afraid (or simply don't like) dogs, should have the right to stay in those loops...without the concern of their family members being afraid.   People walking their pets is different because the pet is gone in a few moments... if the dog (or dogs) was in the loop next to us, it would create an issue our entire stay.

 

There's a problem with the argument that you are both making.

 

There are no written rules about pet loops.

 

You assume that a guest with a pet on a non-designated pet loop snuck the pet in.

 

That's not a valid assumption.

 

I arrived at the Fort once with my dog, who was then still a puppy.  I hadn't planned on bringing him, but because of some events that occurred, my plans changed.  I had reserved a partial hook-up site, and expected that I would be required to upgrade to a full hookup or higher level site on a pet loop. There was no sneaking.  Rocky was licking the CM on the face.  The CM just had me sign the pet agreement, and sent me on my way to the 1500 loop.  I was given permission to camp on the 1500 loop with a dog.  I'm sure some people with dogs on non-pet loops snuck them in, but I'd bet most of them didn't.

 

There are no written rules on the Disney website to guide guests about what's permitted.  There used to be, but they've been missing for a while.

 

The only written rules that guests currently receive are in the booklet provided at check-in.  This is what is said there:

 

 

That's it.

 

Read that carefully.

 

According to that, dogs can't be tethered outside.  On any length of chain.

 

They can't be kept in a fenced in area like I always see guests doing.

 

If they're outside the camper, they have to be on a leash that cannot exceed 6' in length.

 

Do you know how many times I've seen that rule violated.

 

Hundreds is no exaggeration.

 

Keep reading.

 

If a pet interferes with the quality of a guest's experience in any way, the pet owner must make it stop, or remove the pet, or leave.  So, if I have a child who is deathly afraid of dogs, and I end up on a pet loop, and the camper next door has a dog which just by being there interferes with the quality of my child's experience, that guy has to move?  That's what the rule says.  How likely is that to happen?

 

I agree that the way it should be is that there are pet loops and there are not pet loops.  Guests can reserve what they want, and if what they want is not available, then it's not available.  What's so hard about that Disney?

 

But, to be clear, it is not that way now, and someone with a fear of dogs has no assurance that there won't be one or more right next door, whether they think they've reserved a pet loop or not.

 

As Disneycamper said earlier in this thread-all loops are pet loops.  That's just the way it is.

 

Just more incompetent management.

 

What else is new?

 

TCD

[Lou... 3,118]

The only written rules that guests currently receive are in the booklet provided at check-in. 

 

 

When we stayed at the Fort 3 or 4 years ago, we had to sign a pet agreement, which did have all the pet rules. 

It sounds like that's no longer the case?

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

When we stayed at the Fort 3 or 4 years ago, we had to sign a pet agreement, which did have all the pet rules. 

It sounds like that's no longer the case?

 

That's a good point- there is still a pet agreement.  At least as far as I know there is.  I signed one that time I had Rocky in the 1500 loop.

 

Here's a copy of what I signed- there are rules in there that are inconsistent with the rules in the check-in packet:

 

 

 

This is what used to be on the website, but is on longer there:

 

I wonder if Mo could get her hands on a current pet agreement?

 

Maybe I can find one somewhere?

 

I think my point is still valid though- there are no written rules that I've ever seen that says a camper will be booted off a non-pet loop just for merely having a dog along.

 

TCD

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

 

 

 

The only written rules that guests currently receive are in the booklet provided at check-in.  This is what is said there:

 

 

That's it.

 

 

As Disneycamper said earlier in this thread-all loops are pet loops.  That's just the way it is.

 

Just more incompetent management.

 

What else is new?

 

TCD

 

A little "devil's advocate" here....  It also states pets can be walked on numerous trails  {pet walks. possibly the sidewalks} and let loose in the dog park.  Absolutely nothing about through other loops.

 

Also there a self acclaimed CM on another place, not to be named, saying that the pet loop requirement is about to be enforced do to the numerous complaints being received at the front desk.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

A little "devil's advocate" here....  It also states pets can be walked on numerous trails  {pet walks. possibly the sidewalks} and let loose in the dog park.  Absolutely nothing about through other loops.

 

Also there a self acclaimed CM on another place, not to be named, saying that the pet loop requirement is about to be enforced do to the numerous complaints being received at the front desk.

 

You're right.

 

And there are signs posted around that say "No Pets Beyond this Point."

 

But, there are instances where CM's place guests with pets in loops that supposedly are not pet loops.  I can't see how a guest in that situation would be restricted from walking his dog around the loop.

 

TCD

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

The Disney Fort Wilderness website states that SOME loops allow pets. That would imply that pets are NOT allowed in the other loops. Since Lou posted the written rules, I will play out a little scenario.

Camper A goes online and makes reservations. They indicate that they want a pet loop, but also request a specific non-pet loop. At check-in,the CM assigns them to their requested non-pet loop (which seems to be in violation of the "pets allowed in some loops" written policy on the Disney website).

Camper B makes reservations and makes sure to add a note about allergy, fear or anxiety about dogs, etc and requests a non-pet loop. At check-in, they are assigned a non-pet loop ... The same one as Camper A.

Camper A is walking his pet, and Camper B is seriously affected by it. According to the written rue, they must stop the activity causing the problem that can't happen because just being there is the problem), kennel the pet off-site or LEAVE THE RESORT.

Disney now has a big problem, and given our litigious society, will eventually end up in Court. Disney does have rules - and constantly ignores them at the Fort. The bottom line - Disney won't pay for their problem, WE will.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

The Disney Fort Wilderness website states that SOME loops allow pets. That would imply that pets are NOT allowed in the other loops. Since Lou posted the written rules, I will play out a little scenario.

Camper A goes online and makes reservations. They indicate that they want a pet loop, but also request a specific non-pet loop. At check-in,the CM assigns them to their requested non-pet loop (which seems to be in violation of the "pets allowed in some loops" written policy on the Disney website).

Camper B makes reservations and makes sure to add a note about allergy, fear or anxiety about dogs, etc and requests a non-pet loop. At check-in, they are assigned a non-pet loop ... The same one as Camper A.

Camper A is walking his pet, and Camper B is seriously affected by it. According to the written rue, they must stop the activity causing the problem that can't happen because just being there is the problem), kennel the pet off-site or LEAVE THE RESORT.

Disney now has a big problem, and given our litigious society, will eventually end up in Court. Disney does have rules - and constantly ignores them at the Fort. The bottom line - Disney won't pay for their problem, WE will.

 

Yes, they have a big problem.

 

I agree with that.

 

But, again, the flaw in your scenario is that nobody can go on-line and book a non-pet loop.

 

This is not something that they advertise or offer.

 

TCD

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

You can make a request for a specific loop. You can also request a pet loop. I will admit that it is well hidden, but it is there. You can also call in and make specific requests. As long as the written policy requires the pet or the camper to leave, then Disney would eat it in Court if they didn't enforce it.

What if someone had a severe allergic reaction and died? Someone could end up with negligent homicide charges and Disney would have a wrongful death suit that the campers would end up paying for.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

You can make a request for a specific loop. You can also request a pet loop. I will admit that it is well hidden, but it is there. You can also call in and make specific requests. As long as the written policy requires the pet or the camper to leave, then Disney would eat it in Court if they didn't enforce it.

What if someone had a severe allergic reaction and died? Someone could end up with negligent homicide charges and Disney would have a wrongful death suit that the campers would end up paying for.

 

You can request anything you want, but there is no where that you can reserve a non-pet loop.

 

If you have a severe allergy to dogs that is life threatening, you shouldn't come to the Fort.  The Fort is a pet friendly resort.  Very pet friendly.

 

It would be very simple to make rules to restrict dogs to certain loops and certain areas of the Fort.  They used to do that.  But since the place is managed by idiots, this is just another huge mess they created.

 

If you want to talk lawsuits, I think a better one would be if someone gets hurt by a kid driving a golf cart.  How many times have we all seen that?  How many times have we seen a Fort employee look the other way?

 

TCD

[Lou... 3,118]

The Disney Fort Wilderness website states that SOME loops allow pets. That would imply that pets are NOT allowed in the other loops. Since Lou posted the written rules, I will play out a little scenario.

Camper A goes online and makes reservations. They indicate that they want a pet loop, but also request a specific non-pet loop. At check-in,the CM assigns them to their requested non-pet loop (which seems to be in violation of the "pets allowed in some loops" written policy on the Disney website).

Camper B makes reservations and makes sure to add a note about allergy, fear or anxiety about dogs, etc and requests a non-pet loop. At check-in, they are assigned a non-pet loop ... The same one as Camper A.

Camper A is walking his pet, and Camper B is seriously affected by it. According to the written rue, they must stop the activity causing the problem that can't happen because just being there is the problem), kennel the pet off-site or LEAVE THE RESORT.

Disney now has a big problem, and given our litigious society, will eventually end up in Court. Disney does have rules - and constantly ignores them at the Fort. The bottom line - Disney won't pay for their problem, WE will.

 

That was TCD that posted the info that is given at check-in.

 

The wording "non-pet loop" is being used here, but from my research on the internal website regarding pet policy and practices used at the Fort, Disney doesn't use that wording. There are loops that are referred to as a "pet loop", or "pet friendly", but none that are referred to as a "non-pet loop".

Is that a loop hole for the Fort to make any loop a pet loop any time they want and stay within their policies?

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

Oops - it was TCD that posted that.

 

It still doesn't relieve Disney of the requirement of enforcing the few rules they do have about pets. The pet is a problem, it goes or the camper goes ... as if that will happen until it costs them a lot of money because of a lawsuit.

[Lou... 3,118]

It still doesn't relieve Disney of the requirement of enforcing the few rules they do have about pets. The pet is a problem, it goes or the camper goes ... as if that will happen until it costs them a lot of money because of a lawsuit.

 

It's not like they're breaking any laws or regulations, so they're not required by anyone to enforce them.

They're rules that they made up, and so are free to ignore or enforce them as they wish, and as we know, they don't wish to.

 

What was being talked about was not problem dogs, as I'm sure we can all agree that a problem dog should be boarded or the guest must leave. The discussion was about allowing dogs in all the loops.

 

The dog situation has been as it is for years, wouldn't you think that if it were a problem to the point of having to fight law suits, that by now they would have really cracked down?

Yes, the Fort and WDW have a lot of idiots managing it, but the attorneys are probably the best that money can pay for.

[caveat lector 181]

.........

If you have a severe allergy to dogs that is life threatening, you shouldn't come to the Fort.  The Fort is a pet friendly resort.  Very pet friendly.

 

TCD

Yet another piece of sage advice.

If my traveling party fit this category, why would I go on a VACATION where the operating rules are so nebulous / weakly enforced?

If your idea of relaxing is a confrontation with your neighbor pet owner, calls to the front desk to complain to a powerless staff, or studying micro print to see what rules have not been enforced, then this might be the perfect trip.

Everything can't be everything to everyone. At some point, the majority has to be catered to(PROFIT driven). As stated above, the Fort is very pet friendly. I vote my approval with that philosophy with my vacation dollars. If enough folks take their vacation dollars elsewhere, to not pet friendly campgrounds, it's up to Disney to change. At which point, it becomes incumbent on me to find somewhere else that my family will be happy.

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

At some point, the majority has to be catered to(PROFIT driven)

That is where the problem is. The majority (those who follow and want the rules enforced) are not catered to those who break the rules are.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

That is where the problem is. The majority (those who follow and want the rules enforced) are not catered to those who break the rules are.

 

I'm not sure I can agree with that statement.

 

Based on what I've seen lately, the majority does not follow the rules.

 

The pet rule in the pamphlet says any dog outside of an RV must be on a hand-held leash less than 6 feet long.

 

The majority of pet owners at the Fort do not follow this rule.

 

TCD

[Lou... 3,118]

If your idea of relaxing is a confrontation with your neighbor pet owner, calls to the front desk to complain to a powerless staff, or studying micro print to see what rules have not been enforced, then this might be the perfect trip.

 

 

Oh boy, I get to use "sage" for this post.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

I've seen a few reports over the years of people reporting dogs in non-pet loops where the people with the dog were actually asked to board the dog or move.  I can't substantiate the reports but they were reportedly cases where people had snuck the dog in, not where they were assigned those sites by Disney, knowing full well they had a dog.  These reports are rare.

 

More often what I've seen reported is that the person that called in the complaint was given the option of moving to another loop.

 

Huh?!?!

 

So the person breaking the rules has no consequences, and the person who's just trying to enjoy their vacation has to pull up stakes and relocate.

 

Makes no sense.

 

Disney needs a clear and consistent pet policy, and they need to enforce it.  Other campgrounds with far less staff and resources do it all the time.

 

If they want to designate pet/non-pet loops (and I think they should for all the reasons that have been discussed) they should allow guests to easily reserve whichever they want when they book.  Want a pet loop and they're fully booked?  Then you know that when you make your reservation, and you decide to either leave your pet at home or board there.

 

It's really not rocket science.

 

But then again, we're talking about management that is notorious for making rules that are often vague, inconsistently noted, and randomly enforced.

[caveat lector 181]

Oh boy, I get to use "sage" for this post.

Come on Captain Lou, admit it......you thought I was talking about a cooking spice.