At what point does the Fort not become worth it?

[tim5055 120]

3 hours ago, disneylitch......Debbie said:

I understand everyone's concern with some of the issues at The Fort.  However, we have to remember that there are people reading these posts and we don't want to paint an extremely negative picture of The Fort.  Yes, things have changed over the years and not everything has been a change for the better.  With that being said, I love coming to The Fort and can't wait until my next visit.  It is very relaxing and much better than staying in a hotel.  I like not having to worry about dining reservations and can enjoy my stay on my own schedule.  Yes, there are things that I would like to see changed:  a way to enforce golf cart rules as well as the other rules in general, a better reservation system, improvements to the playgrounds, Wifi at all sites, and discounts comparable to the value resorts.  Hopefully we will see some improvements, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

 

I can agree with a lot of this!!  As for myself I camped at FW soon after it opened, around 1974 if I have my facts straight.  I think a lot of us notice the "blemishes" because we have been there through the years or just spend so much time there that little changes stand out.

 

To the average camper who may only go once or twice for the week long vacation they would not see what we are talking about most of the time. 

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

3 hours ago, disneylitch......Debbie said:

I understand everyone's concern with some of the issues at The Fort.  However, we have to remember that there are people reading these posts and we don't want to paint an extremely negative picture of The Fort.  Yes, things have changed over the years and not everything has been a change for the better.  With that being said, I love coming to The Fort and can't wait until my next visit.  It is very relaxing and much better than staying in a hotel.  I like not having to worry about dining reservations and can enjoy my stay on my own schedule.  Yes, there are things that I would like to see changed:  a way to enforce golf cart rules as well as the other rules in general, a better reservation system, improvements to the playgrounds, Wifi at all sites, and discounts comparable to the value resorts.  Hopefully we will see some improvements, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Well said and I agree.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

2 hours ago, tim5055 said:

 

I can agree with a lot of this!!  As for myself I camped at FW soon after it opened, around 1974 if I have my facts straight.  I think a lot of us notice the "blemishes" because we have been there through the years or just spend so much time there that little changes stand out.

 

To the average camper who may only go once or twice for the week long vacation they would ne see what we are talking about most of the time. 

Correct. Those of us that have been going there for awhile ( I started in the 80's ) can see quite clearly the changes both good and bad.

To some the bad changes seem to have outweighed the good, especially in recent years.

Having said that, I think we all agree the Fort is still by far the best way to visit WDW.  But, like a family holding an intervention to keep a beloved relative from even more bad behaviour, we meet here at FF to try and keep what we all love from slipping even further.

I know we all reacted when we saw the leaked plans for the RC DVC and the parking lot planned for Pioneer Hall. Luckily that hasn't happened yet, but it still may.

So, to get back to the original question.  At what point will the Fort no longer be worth it?

 

[Travisma 1,317]

4 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Correct. Those of us that have been going there for awhile ( I started in the 80's ) can see quite clearly the changes both good and bad.

To some the bad changes seem to have outweighed the good, especially in recent years.

Having said that, I think we all agree the Fort is still by far the best way to visit WDW.  But, like a family holding an intervention to keep a beloved relative from even more bad behaviour, we meet here at FF to try and keep what we all love from slipping even further.

I know we all reacted when we saw the leaked plans for the RC DVC and the parking lot planned for Pioneer Hall. Luckily that hasn't happened yet, but it still may.

So, to get back to the original question.  At what point will the Fort no longer be worth it?

 

Like I posted earlier, we hit the breaking point this coming March.  We booked 2 days mid week on a partial and so far are up to $191.  We really need a Friday and if we can get it, it'll be over $100 more.  So we are pretty sure we are going to cancel and just book a Friday at a hotel.  It's not worth the hassle trying to get the 3rd night, then having to break camp instead of visiting with relatives and going to the parks.

[mmfancipher 31]

16 hours ago, BradyBzLyn...Mo said:

Here in New England we have a LOT of salt right now...

In Iowa we have salt too, but we also have a fancy schmancy chemical that sometimes freezes when it is in the upper 20s! 

 

 

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

1 hour ago, mmfancipher said:

In Iowa we have salt too, but we also have a fancy schmancy chemical that sometimes freezes when it is in the upper 20s! 

That sounds like an adventure!  LOL

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

14 hours ago, Travisma said:

Like I posted earlier, we hit the breaking point this coming March.  We booked 2 days mid week on a partial and so far are up to $191.  We really need a Friday and if we can get it, it'll be over $100 more.  So we are pretty sure we are going to cancel and just book a Friday at a hotel.  It's not worth the hassle trying to get the 3rd night, then having to break camp instead of visiting with relatives and going to the parks.

So for you it's a combination of high price and the lack of availablilty.

What if they raised the price and had more sites open as a result (easy availability)?

Or, what if the price was lower, but you had to book wayyyy ahead of time to get the site?

Would either of those make a difference?  I'm not sure which would for me, I guess it would depend on how flexible my time was (and how fat my wallet was  )

[The Troll 67]

On 2/9/2016 at 9:02 AM, Tri-Circle-D said:

Sorry, but this thread has gone off the rails.

There is no way that Disney is going to expand the Fort or build another campground.  Yes, there is plenty of land and space to add more loops.  But, you only need to look at the leaked plans for the River Country DVC to see that they have no desire to build more campsites.

They are raking in so much money from the DVC projects that they can't build them fast enough.

TCD

Yes, I agree, and I'm partly or largely responsible for the thread going off the rails. For that, I apologize.

You make a great point. Evidently the Fort is profitable enough for it to remain open but not so profitable (like the DVCs) that it warrants any sort of expansion. Say what I will, but there just is no arguing with success -- or profits. I'm not entirely crazy about the DVC business model, but it's clearly hugely profitable, so I'm wrong about that.

On the matter of what the Fort has become and when it no longer becomes worth it, I point to this:

Maybe I'm being a bit corny, but to me, this is what the Fort should be and was meant to be -- quaint, modest, quiet, charming. Cooking outdoors, relaxing in your camp chairs, grand views, plush forest.

The Fort used to be this but isn't anywhere close to it now. The common areas -- Meadows Trading Post, swimming pool, recreation areas, Settlement, etc. -- are still first rate and very nice, but the loops are just ugly.

But that's just me. A very good friend of Leslie's is a Disney reservationist -- ranked consistently in their top 10 reservationists -- and she tells us the Fort is almost always near capacity now.

So who the heck am I to complain? You can't argue with success.

Me? I'll just book a room at the Coronado in the future. It's quiet, quaint, charming...and they have hammocks on the beach. No diesel engines. No horse trailers. No semi trucks. No touring buses. No offroad golf carts. No leaf blowers going all day...

[FEARtheEERS 18]

For my family, the Fort isn't even a much about Disney as it is about "The Fort."  We are actually planning to start staying at Disney resorts as a vacation in themselves (the fort included).  We are thinking the best bang for our buck lately is to stay off property and go back to the old ways of killing a major day at Disney because a hotel then only becomes a place to sleep and shower...sooo, what is the point of paying a lot of money for it?  If there were a campground that held the charm that the fort had, we would be vacationing there as well. We have annual passes so on most days we literally go in and do our fast passes, look around and get out and hang out at the camper.

I agree that the loops need more life.  It would not be expensive to just add some charm.  Heck, they probably have things laying in a building somewhere that they could pull out and throw up at Fort Wilderness and we would melt like the softies we are just from the nostalgia.  

Every resort at Disney is what you make of it, in my opinion.  I cant imagine staying at the Grand Floridian or in the bungalows and spending my time at The Magic Kingdom.  Heck no, I would be laid back eating grapes or whatever those people do.  Everyone has their own budget, I think the Fort should be more of a destination than a place to sleep while you visit Disney.  If I want a place to just sleep, I want a hotel with a low rate and an awesome free buffet breakfast.  

[ependydad...Doug 176]

Can someone clear this up while use their website:

I have a 1 week reservation (2/16-2/23) that I wanted to change to 2 weeks (2/16-3/1). When I try to extend the reservation, it says there is no availability for a Premium site.

BUT, I can add another 1 week reservation for 2/23-3/1 and it works. Which is great and all- but silly and annoying.

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

12 minutes ago, ependydad...Doug said:

Can someone clear this up while use their website:

I have a 1 week reservation (2/16-2/23) that I wanted to change to 2 weeks (2/16-3/1). When I try to extend the reservation, it says there is no availability for a Premium site.

BUT, I can add another 1 week reservation for 2/23-3/1 and it works. Which is great and all- but silly and annoying.

The Fort may be sold out for President's weekend, so if you include these dates in your new reservation search, it will say there are no sites for that stay, but after everyone checks out for the weekend, and you enter the 23-31, there are sites.

Best Regards,

Norm

[ependydad...Doug 176]

The Fort may be sold out for President's weekend, so if you include these dates in your new reservation search, it will say there are no sites for that stay, but after everyone checks out for the weekend, and you enter the 23-31, there are sites.

Best Regards,

Norm

That makes sense, but I literally have the same 2 weeks reserved as two 1-week stays vs. one 2-week stay.

[Travisma 1,317]

5 minutes ago, FEARtheEERS said:

For my family, the Fort isn't even a much about Disney as it is about "The Fort."  We are actually planning to start staying at Disney resorts as a vacation in themselves (the fort included).  We are thinking the best bang for our buck lately is to stay off property and go back to the old ways of killing a major day at Disney because a hotel then only becomes a place to sleep and shower...sooo, what is the point of paying a lot of money for it?  If there were a campground that held the charm that the fort had, we would be vacationing there as well. We have annual passes so on most days we literally go in and do our fast passes, look around and get out and hang out at the camper.

I agree that the loops need more life.  It would not be expensive to just add some charm.  Heck, they probably have things laying in a building somewhere that they could pull out and throw up at Fort Wilderness and we would melt like the softies we are just from the nostalgia.  

Every resort at Disney is what you make of it, in my opinion.  I cant imagine staying at the Grand Floridian or in the bungalows and spending my time at The Magic Kingdom.  Heck no, I would be laid back eating grapes or whatever those people do.  Everyone has their own budget, I think the Fort should be more of a destination than a place to sleep while you visit Disney.  If I want a place to just sleep, I want a hotel with a low rate and an awesome free buffet breakfast.  

That is how we feel.

Up until last year, we didn't have passes, so all of the Fort visits were Fort days or resort hopping. We did anything and everything and had a blast.  Now when we camp and go to the parks, it feels like we are cheating a little on both worlds.

Same when we stay off site and are going to the parks.  Get the cheapest clean/safe place to stay and use it for a base camp. We did stay at an Embassy a couple of weeks back, and made it back in time for the happy hour, and hung around long enough in the morning to have the free breakfast, and we still got to do enough at the parks. A while back we stayed at another resort, but didn't get a chance to utilize any of its amenities, because we were at the parks late and headed back early the next morning.

That's one of the reasons we will probably be cancelling our March stay, along with the cost and not being able to get the day we really want.

 

[Travisma 1,317]

3 hours ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

So for you it's a combination of high price and the lack of availablilty.

What if they raised the price and had more sites open as a result (easy availability)?

Or, what if the price was lower, but you had to book wayyyy ahead of time to get the site?

Would either of those make a difference?  I'm not sure which would for me, I guess it would depend on how flexible my time was (and how fat my wallet was  )

It's both. 

I don't think we would bother going if they raised the rates much higher.  Roughly $90 a night for a place to drop a trailer/tent and only get water and electric is plenty high.

We are dropping a bundle (to us) around the 4th of July for an 11 night stay.  We will not be hitting the parks due to blackout dates.

We made the reservation almost a year in advance as soon as Northern relatives gave us their plans.  I would like the cost to be a lot less, but it's still cheaper than most of the other options, plus we can cook.  I would hate to be cooped up in a hotel room that long.

[disneylitch......Debbie 60]

We were there over Christmas because we were lucky enough to get a last minute reservation.  We paid $145 a night for a premium site, something I said that I would never do.  However, we still have our annual passes and didn't eat out.  This saved us lots of money. 

We didn't have any plans to visit Disney again in 2015.  We were there for 3 weeks in September/October with our daughter and 3 grandkids.  The motorhome was winterized and put away for the winter.  Then I got this brilliant idea for visiting Disney.  My husband said I you can get reservations, we will go.  This was December 18.  Well, I called and there was an opening.  Guess it was just meant to be.

Now to get back on topic.  I priced a campground in Ocean City, MD and your stated rate is for 2 adults and children under the age of 10.  Additional adults are $12 per person and kids 11-17 are $6 per person or $8 per person, different campgrounds.  This can really add up if you have a large family.  They also only allow 1 vehicle, same as The Fort. 

At this point, I don't know when The Fort will be too expensive.  I hated paying for a premium site over Christmas, but it was that or nothing.  We usually stay for at least 2 weeks since we travel 1000 miles.  Now that fuel is affordable, a week stay isn't out of the question.  We could stay at a campground off property, but I don't want to fight the traffic getting into the parks.  Maybe in the future, we might have to consider this.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

2 hours ago, FEARtheEERS said:

 I cant imagine staying at the Grand Floridian or in the bungalows and spending my time at The Magic Kingdom.  Heck no, I would be laid back eating grapes or whatever those people do. 

I like grapes -- where do I sign up?  LOL

Honestly, after spending the better part of an afternoon at the GF spa in November, I could totally see spending a week at the GF as a destination all by itself ... if I were to hit the lottery. Using it just as a place to sleep and shower in between running off to parks seems like a waste to me.

2 hours ago, ependydad...Doug said:

Can someone clear this up while use their website:

I have a 1 week reservation (2/16-2/23) that I wanted to change to 2 weeks (2/16-3/1). When I try to extend the reservation, it says there is no availability for a Premium site.

BUT, I can add another 1 week reservation for 2/23-3/1 and it works. Which is great and all- but silly and annoying.

Because the reservation system is stupid and broken and generally doesn't make sense.

Sorry - I'm just being a smartass, but often it seems like that really is the answer.

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

2 hours ago, ependydad...Doug said:

Can someone clear this up while use their website:

I have a 1 week reservation (2/16-2/23) that I wanted to change to 2 weeks (2/16-3/1). When I try to extend the reservation, it says there is no availability for a Premium site.

BUT, I can add another 1 week reservation for 2/23-3/1 and it works. Which is great and all- but silly and annoying.

As Mo said, it's the system. Somehow one day got dropped for us mid Jan. Could not add the day it became a separate reservation check-out then check back in.     ????

[geoffdaddy 33]

On 2/9/2016 at 3:20 PM, keith_h said:

I think Disney would have to do quite a bit to create a new River Country even if they scaled it back to be resort sized. While I feel the risk is very low the sandy bottom and warm water temperatures you have at River Country, or in much of the deep south, makes for the type of environment Naegleria fowleri amoeba thrives in. Disney already had one death in the 80's due to this amoeba which leaves a potential public relations problem if they try to reopen something similar. In order to eliminate this risk Disney would need to isolate the RC area entirely from Bay Lake and install some type of a hard bottom (i.e. concrete) and chlorinated water system. I just don't see this happening due to cost versus ROI. They can make a lot of money with what they have today and minimal risk both physically and with public perception. To make even more money they can turn RC into a DVC area and who knows maybe use Steve's suggestion of high end campsites where everyone has their own mini Yosemite/Yellowstone campsite for $2000/night. 

 

Yeah, I understand that, I'm not advocating opening the natural water pool back up, but surely they could put a new chlorinated pool in its place.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

18 hours ago, Travisma said:

It's both. 

I don't think we would bother going if they raised the rates much higher.  Roughly $90 a night for a place to drop a trailer/tent and only get water and electric is plenty high.

We are dropping a bundle (to us) around the 4th of July for an 11 night stay.  We will not be hitting the parks due to blackout dates.

We made the reservation almost a year in advance as soon as Northern relatives gave us their plans.  I would like the cost to be a lot less, but it's still cheaper than most of the other options, plus we can cook.  I would hate to be cooped up in a hotel room that long.

Seems like Disney is threading the line between making prices so high that demand drops or keeping them low and having zero availability.  I still don't understand their reluctance to build out more loops. Yes, it requires roads and utilities, but compared to building new DVC resorts it's simple. Besides the 600 loop extension, when was the last new camping loop?

I don't blame you about the hotel rooms, I feel the same way, I would rather jump thru hoops to bring the camper.   

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

13 hours ago, geoffdaddy said:

 

Yeah, I understand that, I'm not advocating opening the natural water pool back up, but surely they could put a new chlorinated pool in its place.

I'm sure TDC will answer you, but don't forget this is the same Disney that had the chance to really expand and enhance the Fort pools into more modern water features as they have done with all of the hotels.

They had the pools all ripped apart and could have done anything they wanted.

So what did they do while they had the chance?  They filled in the deep end to avoid lawsuits.....

To be fair they did add a really tame slide and a way-too small hot tub. But they didn't add so much as an inch of pool space or any other themeing.

I would also LOVE to see a new pool or small water park where RC used to be. The Fort really deserves a nice lazy river for instance....    

But as The Troll said above, apparently Disney is choosing benign neglect where the Fort is concerned. They will keep it open to make money, but won't do much beyond that to expand or improve it unless it's absolutely necessary   

 

[Travisma 1,317]

It's the "old timers" that are the most vocal about the current sad state of the Fort.  The campers that have been around since the good old days and have seen all the amenities and uniqueness slowly stripped away.

The newer campers love the Fort because they don't know what they missed.

The Fort is a great campground.  Is it expensive for a place to drop a camper or pitch a tent? Yes it is, but as others have stated it's not too overpriced because some other highly rated sites nickel and dime you to death.

The old timers still love the Fort but to us, we are paying more and getting less than what we used to,

Disney treats the Fort like a red headed step child or a necessary nuisance.

People would be a lot happier if they did give us some perks, added amenities, and enforced the current rules fairly across the board.

It's hard to stomach paying as much as a value resort and not get the same amenities as they do.

Personally, I would love to see the trams come back in addition to the internal busses.  They could run them in-between the bus runs so everyone didn't have too wait so long.  Who knows, it might cut down on all of the carts flying around. Then that way if the busses are still running, they would still be ADA compliant.

[disneylitch......Debbie 60]

14 hours ago, geoffdaddy said:

 

Yeah, I understand that, I'm not advocating opening the natural water pool back up, but surely they could put a new chlorinated pool in its place.

They could just reopen the pool that is already there.  The beach could be for relaxing, no swimming, just like every other beach at Disney World.

[tim5055 120]

2 hours ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Besides the 600 loop extension, when was the last new camping loop?

Well, here is the full history I have been able to put together - Fort Wilderness opened November 19, 1971 on 750,at that time it had 231 camping sites including loops 100 - 600.

June 1973 added 481 sites, loops 700 - 1900

April 8, 1974 "Treasure Island" opened with a pirate theme

April 1974 Pioneer Hall opened

April 1976 Treasure Island renamed Discovery Island and became an accredited Zoological park 

June 1976 added 113 sites, loops 2000 - 2100

June 1976 River Country opened

April 1979 added Creekside Meadow group camping area

December 1986 added 383 cabin sites, loops 2200 - 2800

June 2008 New "Premium" site level created with the conversion of existing sites

 

 

So, I guess the answer is 1976....

[tim5055 120]

37 minutes ago, disneylitch......Debbie said:

They could just reopen the pool that is already there.  The beach could be for relaxing, no swimming, just like every other beach at Disney World.

 

There is no beach at River Country and the only pool they could reopen is a small kidney shaped pool in the middle of the property.

Any modification to try to use the old River Country site for Fort Wilderness guests is just too expensive for them to even consider IMHO.

 

[disneylitch......Debbie 60]

29 minutes ago, tim5055 said:

 

There is no beach at River Country and the only pool they could reopen is a small kidney shaped pool in the middle of the property.

Any modification to try to use the old River Country site for Fort Wilderness guests is just too expensive for them to even consider IMHO.

 

So sad!!  The pool used to have a nice slide and the beach was really nice too.  Such a shame.