At what point does the Fort not become worth it?

[AuburnJen 771]

26 minutes ago, mouseketab.....Carol said:

I was just reminded that another Wild Womenz told us that the middle back seat of the small boat launches is very similar to the barrels :)

REALLY????  And it doesn't take QUARTERS EITHER!  I wonder what the boat captain will say when he sees us getting all giddy???????

[momof3kids-Yvonne 594]

REALLY?  And it doesn't take QUARTERS EITHER!  I wonder what the boat captain will say when he sees us getting all giddy????

Not mention when we refuse to leave the boat all day.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[AuburnJen 771]

Just now, momof3kids-Yvonne said:

Not mention when we refuse to leave the boat all day.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Can they kick us off for bad behavior?

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

14 hours ago, AuburnJen said:

Can they kick us off for bad behavior?

 

I heard all the sites in the 3000 loop have their own barrels, right next to the beer taps.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 2/15/2016 at 1:33 PM, Seals said:

I want them to bring back the lawnmower tree!

 

Yes, though it would take some planning on Disney's part..... How long would it be for them to grow a tree around a lawnmower? Maybe a John Deere this time? 

 Has anyone said Musket Mickey yet?  I definitely want to see him back.   

 

[AuburnJen 771]

24 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

 

I heard all the sites in the 3000 loop have their own barrels, right next to the beer taps.

as long as they have unlimited play, I'm all good

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 2/11/2016 at 10:50 AM, tim5055 said:

Well, here is the full history I have been able to put together - Fort Wilderness opened November 19, 1971 on 750,at that time it had 231 camping sites including loops 100 - 600.

June 1973 added 481 sites, loops 700 - 1900

April 8, 1974 "Treasure Island" opened with a pirate theme

April 1974 Pioneer Hall opened

April 1976 Treasure Island renamed Discovery Island and became an accredited Zoological park 

June 1976 added 113 sites, loops 2000 - 2100

June 1976 River Country opened

April 1979 added Creekside Meadow group camping area

December 1986 added 383 cabin sites, loops 2200 - 2800

June 2008 New "Premium" site level created with the conversion of existing sites

 

 

So, I guess the answer is 1976....

 

Tim,  In all the kerfluffle here, I forgot to say thanks for taking the time to answer my question about when the last camping loop was added.

I still can't believe that the answer was 1976........   40 years ago!?!

Is there any other Disney resort that is still operating at the same size/capacity as they were in 1976?

 

 

 

[tim5055 120]

5 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Is there any other Disney resort that is still operating at the same size/capacity as they were in 1976?

 

The Contemporary??  I can't remember if the garden wings were there at first, but for some reason I thought they were.  I don't count BLT as it is a DVC.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 2/17/2016 at 1:14 PM, tim5055 said:

The Contemporary??  I can't remember if the garden wings were there at first, but for some reason I thought they were.  I don't count BLT as it is a DVC.

Good question. I don't know when they were added. I've never stayed at the Contemporary, are the wings DVC also?

Hate the BLT. They made it big and ugly, well not ugly per se but ugly compared to the Contemp.  Maybe if it was farther away it wouldn't clash so much.

I still can't believe that Disney Mngrs looked at the prospective 3views and thought it was the best design and location for that Holiday Inn wannabee design.

If we needed any evidence that Disney has stopped being about the Imagineering and is now all about the Imagimoney, the BLT is exhibit A......

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

I think that Shades of Green is still the same capacity it was as when it was the Disney Golf Resort. I realize it's no longer a Disney-owned resort.

---------

ETA: I did a little research and it seems that the Disney Golf Resort underwent a single expansion, nearly doubling capacity, sometime around 1976, before becoming Disney Inn and well before becoming Shades.

[tim5055 120]

41 minutes ago, Santa ... Shannon said:

 

I think that Shades of Green is still the same capacity it was as when it was the Disney Golf Resort. I realize it's no longer a Disney-owned resort.

---------

ETA: I did a little research and it seems that the Disney Golf Resort underwent a single expansion, nearly doubling capacity, sometime around 1976, before becoming Disney Inn and well before becoming Shades.

After it was taken over by the Army, it was remodeled again and more rooms were added.  I know I can;t use Wikipedia for college papers, but I hope it works here:

Quote

The resort was completely remodeled and expanded from 2002 to 2004 and now has 586 guest rooms.

and

The renovation remodeled the guest rooms in the Magnolia Wing, doubled the number of guest rooms, added ten family suites, additional dining options, 7,500 square feet (700 m²) of meeting facilities, a fitness center and a multi-level, 500 space parking garage.

 

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

Ah, very cool. I knew they expanded meeting space and facilities, and renovated everything, but didn't know they added more rooms, too. Thanks for the correction.

--------

An interesting blog about the Disney Golf Resort: http://passport2dreams.blogspot.com/2012/01/return-to-golf-resort.html

[tim5055 120]

I'm still surprised Disney sold the resort outright.  43 million just seems like chump change when dealing at the scale Disney works.  I know Disney still owns the land and leases it toe the Department of the Army, but I'm still shocked at the sale.

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

1 hour ago, tim5055 said:

I'm still surprised Disney sold the resort outright.  43 million just seems like chump change when dealing at the scale Disney works. 

From what I understand the Resort was underutilized that is why Disney sold. It was even rebranded once before the sale IIRC and that didn't help increase occupancy.  As to the sale I don't think DOD would do a lease since they own the other 3 similar Resorts outright and were looking to build in FL.

[Travisma 1,317]

We stayed there once a few years ago.  It was a great place, the rooms were huge, the grounds immaculate, and the food great.  We met up with our nephews after the last marathon weekend and it was still a great place.  It's wonderful that our military gets a great place to stay at a decent price.

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

It was rebranded The Disney Inn after WDW sold off the golf course operations. I think the fact that there was no overt theme made Disney want to put their efforts elsewhere.

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

8 minutes ago, Santa ... Shannon said:

It was rebranded The Disney Inn after WDW sold off the golf course operations. I think the fact that there was no overt theme made Disney want to put their efforts elsewhere.

I was also told that  the Poly being right across the street didn't help.

[tim5055 120]

1 hour ago, Santa ... Shannon said:

It was rebranded The Disney Inn after WDW sold off the golf course operations. I think the fact that there was no overt theme made Disney want to put their efforts elsewhere.

It was actually re-branded The Disney Inn in 1986.  From Walt Dated World:

Quote

 Perhaps to appeal to more than just golfers, it became the Disney Inn in February of 1986 and was remodeled to have a Snow White theme.  Another 150 rooms were also added at this time.

 

Disney didn't get out of the golf business until 2011 when they leased the golf operations to Arnold Palmer Golf Management.

From the Orlando Sentinel at the time:

Quote

Under the deal, Arnold Palmer Golf Management will take over day-to-day operations of each of Disney World's golf courses: Palm, Magnolia, Lake Buena Vista, Osprey Ridge and Oak Trail. Financial terms weren't disclosed, though the Texas-based Palmer group will make annual lease payments to Disney and split revenue earned from the courses with the resort.

Roughly 330 Disney employees will be affected by the change. Disney said nearly all of the workers will be offered other jobs, at comparable pay, elsewhere in the resort. It expects others will be hired by Arnold Palmer Golf Management.

 

But the idea that it had no real theme is probably the reason it never did well.  From what I read it usually had 60-70% occupancy when the Contemporay and Poly were running in the high 90's.

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

I'm really off my game today... but yeah, thanks for the correction. Trying to get us back on track though, I thought it very interesting that on the article above they quote an annual report (1978?) that mentions Fort Wilderness right alongside Contemporary and Poly, and mentions the expansions to the Fort to handle demand. At one point the Fort was seen as a full-fledged family member, not a red-headed step-child.

[tim5055 120]

11 minutes ago, Santa ... Shannon said:

I'm really off my game today... but yeah, thanks for the correction. Trying to get us back on track though, I thought it very interesting that on the article above they quote an annual report (1978?) that mentions Fort Wilderness right alongside Contemporary and Poly, and mentions the expansions to the Fort to handle demand. At one point the Fort was seen as a full-fledged family member, not a red-headed step-child.

 

Geeze, you wanna get back on track.....

 

I agree, early on FW was part of the team.  Not so much any more.  I'm a believer that if they ever develop the waterfront between the lodge & FW into their western theme area, even if a big part of it is DVC will help the for recover some of its status.

[djsamuel 322]

14 hours ago, tim5055 said:

I agree, early on FW was part of the team.  Not so much any more.  I'm a believer that if they ever develop the waterfront between the lodge & FW into their western theme area, even if a big part of it is DVC will help the for recover some of its status.

That is an interesting angle on the whole subject.  Never thought of it that way.

[Travisma 1,317]

I had posted this previously on another thread....

 

Very nice statement Grumpy.  I like what you said.

One thing I've been thinking about  back in the early days is,  how many of the campers had TVs in their campers?  And now, how many don't have TVs?

 And now the Fort is putting in Wi-Fi (is that correct term) poles to , hopefully cover the camp ground.  Yes it's taking a long time, but if it works, there are going to be a lot of happy campers.  And I'm sure it's not inexpensive either.

======================================================================================================

I think this is part of the underlying issues with the Fort and the reason so many people are "complaining and unhappy".

Yes it's going to be expensive, probably more than putting it in the hotels, but probably a lot less than wiring the theme parks themselves (IMHO).

People feel like the Fort has been treated like the red headed step child for quite a while, but when it first opened and there were only a couple of Disney Hotels, it was treated like royalty and was up there with the hotels in amenities and uniqueness.

Over the years it's been given just enough upkeep and resources to keep it barely in line with Disney standards. Inquiring minds want to know why the little things can't get repaired in a timely fashion like the swings, decorations, etc.

Yes, it's still a great place and unique with it being on a theme parks property and we all love it, even if it's a love hate relationship. And like others have stated the prices are high, but it's all inclusive and you don't get nickeled and dimed with extra site costs, like extra for electric, or more that 2 adults/ 2 kids.

I know it will never happen, (unless there is a Disney Deep Throat hiding in the shadows out there) but it would be interesting to see the price per room upkeep compared to the price per site cost. Again, to me it would seem that the Fort has a lot less day to day costs/upkeep to keep it running so their profit should be higher. You would think just the cooling/heating costs for a hotel would support the entire Forts upkeep.

This is not meant to get people all fired up again and it's not a complaint, just an observation.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

5 minutes ago, Travisma said:

 

People feel like the Fort has been treated like the red headed step child for quite a while, but when it first opened and there were only a couple of Disney Hotels, it was treated like royalty and was up there with the hotels in amenities and uniqueness.

Over the years it's been given just enough upkeep and resources to keep it barely in line with Disney standards. Inquiring minds want to know why the little things can't get repaired in a timely fashion like the swings, decorations, etc.

Yes, it's still a great place and unique with it being on a theme parks property and we all love it, even if it's a love hate relationship. And like others have stated the prices are high, but it's all inclusive and you don't get nickeled and dimed with extra site costs, like extra for electric, or more that 2 adults/ 2 kids.

I know it will never happen, (unless there is a Disney Deep Throat hiding in the shadows out there) but it would be interesting to see the price per room upkeep compared to the price per site cost. Again, to me it would seem that the Fort has a lot less day to day costs/upkeep to keep it running so their profit should be higher. You would think just the cooling/heating costs for a hotel would support the entire Forts upkeep.

This is not meant to get people all fired up again and it's not a complaint, just an observation.

 

Are you trying to get us in trouble again????

You're going to trigger the wrath of the Rose Colored Glasses Brigade again if you're not careful......

Repeat after me: "The Fort is Great Just the Way it Is"  "The Fort is Not a Red-Headed Stepchild"  "The Fort is better now than it has ever been"

Problems? I don't see no stinkin Problems!!   

 

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

Oh, and in an attempt to head off the RCGB:

Disney does deserve props for the new Fort WIFI system. It looks like it will be done right and ahead of schedule  

Now if we could get the same crew to work on a new pool and some new loops....  

Damn, sorry!   Couldn't help it. Too much of a Retro-Grouch   

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 739]

48 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Again, to me it would seem that the Fort has a lot less day to day costs/upkeep to keep it running so their profit should be higher.

I really doubt it since the FORT's operating costs include all the seperate buildings, CS, Trading Posts, Outpost, TE, BYBBQ the two stables, internal buses, GCs, trucks & vans used for Maint. Everytime something needs repair it means driving not getting on the elevator and walking down the hall. Also maintaining underground utilities is not cheap. As an example Roto Rooter is here at least once a month cleaning sewer !Ines. When they resurfaced the roads last year that was probably $200,000-$300,00 minimum.