Christmas reservations

[Katman1356...Jason 1,140]

1 hour ago, Brandon327 said:

How can i get on the list to maybe find a reservation at Christmas time? I want to go from the 19-26.

You can send me an e-mail at [email protected] and I would be happy to add you to my list of dates I am looking for. 

[Starbuc71 162]

Anyone have any luck?  Disney reservations are a joke now. You can hardly get any holiday week or weekend even booking one year out. Walk the loops one of those weeks and see the empty sites. I don't even think Jason has the pixie dust he once had due to disney being just plain idiots. 

[michelb 3]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:28 AM, Starbuc71 said:

Anyone have any luck?  Disney reservations are a joke now. You can hardly get any holiday week or weekend even booking one year out. Walk the loops one of those weeks and see the empty sites. I don't even think Jason has the pixie dust he once had due to disney being just plain idiots. 

I have to agree with you that there does seem to be a lot of empty sites when the campground is "full" so there seems to be room for improvement there.

Having said that, I would strongly encourage anyone that tries to book something and can't to send DisneyWorld a message suggesting they expand Fort Wilderness and mention that you were trying to reserve and weren't able to (I've done it on a few occasions).  

There's tons of space if they wanted to and it just depends how much they want to grow.  In my opinion, to really do it right, they should look at expanding to the West of the campground including adding a new pool there.  I think if they did that, they should consider adding a "Super sized" section section with pull-through spots.  It doesn't quite fit with the design / look of Fort Wilderness but I think it would satisfy a demand and some people would be willing to pay a premium for 70' + long pull through sites (I could see those going for $225/night at XMas).

But they could also easily "in-fill" a few campgrounds to add a bit of extra capacity.  They could easily add one big loop or two small loops East of 1800 / 1900 and they could easily add one or two loops on the East side of Big Pine Drive opposite 1400.  They could also add loop(s) on the West side of 700 although the easiest access to that would probably where the bus stop is at the Settlement and they might not do that.

I think if they get enough requests, they might see that the numbers work.  I actually have no real idea how much it would cost to do this but say it was $500k to add 60 sites near 1800/1900 or 1400.  At an avg of $70/night, figuring 70% occupancy (no idea if this is accurate), they would pay it the investment in 6 months ... And that doesn't include the extra money they get from people spending when they are there.  And I'd be really surprised if it was $500k to expand.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:28 AM, Starbuc71 said:

Anyone have any luck?  Disney reservations are a joke now. You can hardly get any holiday week or weekend even booking one year out. Walk the loops one of those weeks and see the empty sites. I don't even think Jason has the pixie dust he once had due to disney being just plain idiots. 

No Christmas...but we have New Years that we might dump.

[Starbuc71 162]

20 hours ago, michelb said:

I have to agree with you that there does seem to be a lot of empty sites when the campground is "full" so there seems to be room for improvement there.

Having said that, I would strongly encourage anyone that tries to book something and can't to send DisneyWorld a message suggesting they expand Fort Wilderness and mention that you were trying to reserve and weren't able to (I've done it on a few occasions).  

There's tons of space if they wanted to and it just depends how much they want to grow.  In my opinion, to really do it right, they should look at expanding to the West of the campground including adding a new pool there.  I think if they did that, they should consider adding a "Super sized" section section with pull-through spots.  It doesn't quite fit with the design / look of Fort Wilderness but I think it would satisfy a demand and some people would be willing to pay a premium for 70' + long pull through sites (I could see those going for $225/night at XMas).

But they could also easily "in-fill" a few campgrounds to add a bit of extra capacity.  They could easily add one big loop or two small loops East of 1800 / 1900 and they could easily add one or two loops on the East side of Big Pine Drive opposite 1400.  They could also add loop(s) on the West side of 700 although the easiest access to that would probably where the bus stop is at the Settlement and they might not do that.

I think if they get enough requests, they might see that the numbers work.  I actually have no real idea how much it would cost to do this but say it was $500k to add 60 sites near 1800/1900 or 1400.  At an avg of $70/night, figuring 70% occupancy (no idea if this is accurate), they would pay it the investment in 6 months ... And that doesn't include the extra money they get from people spending when they are there.  And I'd be really surprised if it was $500k to expand.

I stated in another topic a while ago, Disney will never build more sites unless all the other ones were filled 7 days a week.  If you are a regular to the fort like we were, you will notice the place packed Thursday through Sunday and the holidays. Mom-Thursday is like a ghost town. 

[Disneybishops 13]

I just said the heck with it.  I booked a cabin 12/27-1/2.  When I called to shorten the time to 4 days I was told it was not available. The lady on the phone said wow that doesn't sound right. She then put me on hold and called the fort and got it done. When she came back on the phone to tell me it was taken care of. She said she didn't understand how they do reservations at the fort. Doesn't make any sense to her and she works there.  Now I just have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the cabin for a few nights. Lol

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 11/22/2017 at 10:00 AM, michelb said:

I have to agree with you that there does seem to be a lot of empty sites when the campground is "full" so there seems to be room for improvement there.

Having said that, I would strongly encourage anyone that tries to book something and can't to send DisneyWorld a message suggesting they expand Fort Wilderness and mention that you were trying to reserve and weren't able to (I've done it on a few occasions).  

There's tons of space if they wanted to and it just depends how much they want to grow.  In my opinion, to really do it right, they should look at expanding to the West of the campground including adding a new pool there.  I think if they did that, they should consider adding a "Super sized" section section with pull-through spots.  It doesn't quite fit with the design / look of Fort Wilderness but I think it would satisfy a demand and some people would be willing to pay a premium for 70' + long pull through sites (I could see those going for $225/night at XMas).

But they could also easily "in-fill" a few campgrounds to add a bit of extra capacity.  They could easily add one big loop or two small loops East of 1800 / 1900 and they could easily add one or two loops on the East side of Big Pine Drive opposite 1400.  They could also add loop(s) on the West side of 700 although the easiest access to that would probably where the bus stop is at the Settlement and they might not do that.

I think if they get enough requests, they might see that the numbers work.  I actually have no real idea how much it would cost to do this but say it was $500k to add 60 sites near 1800/1900 or 1400.  At an avg of $70/night, figuring 70% occupancy (no idea if this is accurate), they would pay it the investment in 6 months ... And that doesn't include the extra money they get from people spending when they are there.  And I'd be really surprised if it was $500k to expand.

Several of us have emailed Disney over the last 5 years or so, but it seems to fall on deaf ears other than a canned thank you response.

My own idea was that since Disney is fixated on Resort Room thinking (and DVC DVC DVC....) then make camping more in line with the Resorts: Create 3 levels of Campgrounds to match with the Deluxe, Moderate, and Value levels of rooms/resorts.

Clear an open area, put parking lines in and put in basic electric and water for each space with a central dump station. Call it the Value area aimed at people who just need a place to plug in for a night or a weekend and don't care about their surroundings.

Make the Fort as is the Moderate Level CG

Then create your "Super-Sized" loops in a separate area, call it the Deluxe area, and have all the Bells and Whistles, maybe even Concierge Service. 

If Disney figures out they can get even more money from some campers,  and they can relate them to room levels, maybe they'll be more willing to expand.

 

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 11/23/2017 at 6:55 AM, Starbuc71 said:

I stated in another topic a while ago, Disney will never build more sites unless all the other ones were filled 7 days a week.  If you are a regular to the fort like we were, you will notice the place packed Thursday through Sunday and the holidays. Mom-Thursday is like a ghost town. 

Even on the weekends there are still some "Phantom Sites" when the system shows everything booked.

I'm curious though..... do the Resort Rooms show the same "Weekend Warrior" effect? Are the hotels booked more on the weekends and less-so midweek? Or is that just at the Fort?

I'm talking just WDW here, I know that CG's and hotels elsewhere do book up weekends much more quickly in general.

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

45 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

 

I'm curious though..... do the Resort Rooms show the same "Weekend Warrior" effect? Are the hotels booked more on the weekends and less-so midweek? Or is that just at the Fort?

That happens more at the FORT do to "locals" planning and reserving weekend trips a yr in advance or longer. All you have to do look at license plates.  FL has a heavy weekend presence. 

When we wintered there we regularly saw the same people several weekends a month.

If 100 people book Thurs/Fri to Sun that removes 100 Fri-Fri ressies from the system.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Grumpy and Grandma
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[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

22 hours ago, Disneybishops said:

I just said the heck with it.  I booked a cabin 12/27-1/2.  When I called to shorten the time to 4 days I was told it was not available. The lady on the phone said wow that doesn't sound right. She then put me on hold and called the fort and got it done. When she came back on the phone to tell me it was taken care of. She said she didn't understand how they do reservations at the fort. Doesn't make any sense to her and she works there.  Now I just have to take out a second mortgage to pay for the cabin for a few nights. Lol

She must be new or contracted then. The booking system they use is not only used at the Fort.... the Disney hotels have the same thing, and I see it all the time. 

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Several of us have emailed Disney over the last 5 years or so, but it seems to fall on deaf ears other than a canned thank you response.

My own idea was that since Disney is fixated on Resort Room thinking (and DVC DVC DVC....) then make camping more in line with the Resorts: Create 3 levels of Campgrounds to match with the Deluxe, Moderate, and Value levels of rooms/resorts.

Clear an open area, put parking lines in and put in basic electric and water for each space with a central dump station. Call it the Value area aimed at people who just need a place to plug in for a night or a weekend and don't care about their surroundings.

Make the Fort as is the Moderate Level CG

Then create your "Super-Sized" loops in a separate area, call it the Deluxe area, and have all the Bells and Whistles, maybe even Concierge Service. 

If Disney figures out they can get even more money from some campers,  and they can relate them to room levels, maybe they'll be more willing to expand.

 

Here's the problem... campsites take up more space than hotels that build up. They do what you're talking about already and in a space where they can build multiple stories up and charge more. 

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Even on the weekends there are still some "Phantom Sites" when the system shows everything booked.

I'm curious though..... do the Resort Rooms show the same "Weekend Warrior" effect? Are the hotels booked more on the weekends and less-so midweek? Or is that just at the Fort?

I'm talking just WDW here, I know that CG's and hotels elsewhere do book up weekends much more quickly in general.

 

Yes, the hotels also book more on the weekends. The same thing is common to find there.... you can book a week but not a weekend. This is even more common when trying to use a FL resident or any other discount. 

[Katman1356...Jason 1,140]

57 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

She must be new or contracted then. The booking system they use is not only used at the Fort.... the Disney hotels have the same thing, and I see it all the time. 

Here's the problem... campsites take up more space than hotels that build up. They do what you're talking about already and in a space where they can build multiple stories up and charge more. 

Yes, the hotels also book more on the weekends. The same thing is common to find there.... you can book a week but not a weekend. This is even more common when trying to use a FL resident or any other discount. 

Everything she said. 

[fotofx....Steve 34]

Jason, I know I asked awhile back and you have me on the list but I am still looking for New Years if it comes up..

Would take the 29th to the 1st ideally.

[Katman1356...Jason 1,140]

6 minutes ago, fotofx....Steve said:

Jason, I know I asked awhile back and you have me on the list but I am still looking for New Years if it comes up..

Would take the 29th to the 1st ideally.

I am here on vacation but still checking twice a day for you. If I see something I will be sure to let you know. 

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

1 hour ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

Here's the problem... campsites take up more space than hotels that build up. They do what you're talking about already and in a space where they can build multiple stories up and charge more. 

Yes, the hotels also book more on the weekends. The same thing is common to find there.... you can book a week but not a weekend. This is even more common when trying to use a FL resident or any other discount. 

I agree that CG's would usually take up more space per guest than a Resort Hotel,  although I do wonder how the footprint of the Fort compares to the other Resorts in total land use when you include their parking lots, access roads, utilities, etc.

TCD,  we need your Magic Purple Crayon! 

And is space an issue at WDW? Other than space near the Lakes/Monorails isn't there plenty of room to plunk down another CG or two?

My bigger question is that if some or all of the hotels also only really fill on the weekends and holidays like the Fort, that fact hasn't stopped Disney from adding new Hotels, so why wouldn't they add Campsites in some form to meet the weekend demand at the Fort? 

Wouldn't the weekend sell-out revenue alone justify building more RV sites, especially "Value" ones?

And if hotel rooms don't have to be full all week to justify building more hotels, is this Disney again looking at the Fort in a different way than all their other Resort areas?

 

 

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

I agree that CG's would usually take up more space per guest than a Resort Hotel,  although I do wonder how the footprint of the Fort compares to the other Resorts in total land use when you include their parking lots, access roads, utilities, etc.
TCD,  we need your Magic Purple Crayon! 
And is space an issue at WDW? Other than space near the Lakes/Monorails isn't there plenty of room to plunk down another CG or two?
My bigger question is that if some or all of the hotels also only really fill on the weekends and holidays like the Fort, that fact hasn't stopped Disney from adding new Hotels, so why wouldn't they add Campsites in some form to meet the weekend demand at the Fort? 
Wouldn't the weekend sell-out revenue alone justify building more RV sites, especially "Value" ones?
And if hotel rooms don't have to be full all week to justify building more hotels, is this Disney again looking at the Fort in a different way than all their other Resort areas?
 
 

Here's what you need to look at... rates of $50-150 a night vs rates of $500-1200+ a right. Of course, those are estimates but close. Look at the current builds... Poly bungalows, Wilderness Lodge cabins, deluxe rooms at Coronado and Caribbean beach. Value level is far from the current focus. The last full resort they built was value. They've moved on to other priorities now.


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[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

18 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

 

Here's what you need to look at... rates of $50-150 a night vs rates of $500-1200+ a right. Of course, those are estimates but close. Look at the current builds... Poly bungalows, Wilderness Lodge cabins, deluxe rooms at Coronado and Caribbean beach. Value level is far from the current focus. The last full resort they built was value. They've moved on to other priorities now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well put. 

For giggles I ran a bunch of dates through for the Poly and Wilderness lodge bungalows/cabins.  2017 nightly rates for Poly Bungalows run $2500-$4300; WL cabins run $2000-$3600.

Everything was booked solid for nearly every date range I ran, regardless of the time of year. As crazy as it sounded when both were announced -  building a very small number of superdeluxe accommodations?? - it seems like it's paying off for Disney big time.

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

43 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

The last full resort they built was value. They've moved on to other priorities now.
 

 

And that was a partial build using the structures started before the economy tanked.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

55 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

 

Here's what you need to look at... rates of $50-150 a night vs rates of $500-1200+ a right. Of course, those are estimates but close. Look at the current builds... Poly bungalows, Wilderness Lodge cabins, deluxe rooms at Coronado and Caribbean beach. Value level is far from the current focus. The last full resort they built was value. They've moved on to other priorities now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Good point.

I guess my counterpoint would be that Disney is large enough to do more than one project at a time and a Value CG could be as simple as a glorified parking lot..... after all, how many of us would take even just a slot in a parking lot if it were considered as being on property and more importantly was available on weekends and holidays.

(I know there are other reasons many of us stay at the Fort besides just being on Disney property, but I'll bet a good number of weekenders wouldn't mind a big paved lot if it was inexpensive enough or the only thing available)

But forget Value resorts or CG's. To your point about where Disney sees the greater profit, lets go the other way.  I wonder how much they could charge for a fully themed Fort-style CG with huge private pull-throughs and amenities galore.  And again, it would be available for those important weekends and holidays....... if you were willing to pay the price of course.........!

Disney is clearly OK with building small numbers of high-dollar accommodations, and we all know there are RVers that would pony up as much as a bungalow costs if it was convenient for them.

Supply and demand after all.  

Or, put another way, how much will prices at the Fort have to go up to until there are sites open on weekends and holidays?

Or, .....I hate to say it .....how long before Disney pursues that thinking to it's logical end and puts another big BLT DVC where The Fort used to be??   

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

23 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

 

Or, put another way, how much will prices at the Fort have to go up to until there are sites open on weekends and holidays?

The way RV's are selling I wouldn't hold my breath.

[shaffecv 12]

I often wondered how they book sites also. We checked into 352 the Saturday after Thanksgiving, The site directly across from us was open from Sunday morning until after check in on Thursday.

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

1 hour ago, shaffecv said:

I often wondered how they book sites also. We checked into 352 the Saturday after Thanksgiving, The site directly across from us was open from Sunday morning until after check in on Thursday.

That is traditionally one of the slowest weeks at WDW and how many families/working people camp Mon to Thurs? Consequently if someone books a Thurs to Sun site they can't sell it for a Sun to Sun reservation, so it sits empty.  The FORT is not like most campgrounds with traveling people looking for 1 or 2 days during the week.

[Starbuc71 162]

It’s all BS. There is a secret equation to how the fort reservation system works. TCD and I were discussing on another thread about how some people get the same sites every holiday. CM can’t even figure that one out.  If they hired a true campground manager I’m sure they could accommodate more reservations and make more money for the bottom line. I know non Florida people always complain about us Floridian weekend warriors but you would all want to do it also if you lived here. Disney is a huge powerhouse now. Ft Wilderness is the lowest priority on their skyscraper totem pole.  They are all bright eyed and bushy tailed about the thought of the supposed Star Wars hotel where they can pull $1000-$5000 per night. We can only dream of more sites and dont think they would ever do anything “value” at the campsites.  If they even thought of adding more sites they would be super deluxe at twice the price. I believe the only reason they converted the one cabin loop to an RV loop is because they can at least sell those out to RVs on the weekend when cabins sit empty more than often.  

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

12 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

That is traditionally one of the slowest weeks at WDW and how many families/working people camp Mon to Thurs? Consequently if someone books a Thurs to Sun site they can't sell it for a Sun to Sun reservation, so it sits empty.  The FORT is not like most campgrounds with traveling people looking for 1 or 2 days during the week.

They should do, as some campgrounds do, and offer large discounts for weekday guests.  They could offer those discounts, online, two weeks before the possession date.   That would help fill in some sites.  Then again... I'm not sure that they're overly concerned about it and for those of us who are able to be there, during those "slow" times... it's kind-of nice.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

8 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

  I know non Florida people always complain about us Floridian weekend warriors but you would all want to do it also if you lived here.  

Yes, if we lived within a 2 hour drive of the Fort, we would spend many weekends there.  I don't complain about the locals coming in for the weekend stays... what frustrates the heck out of me, are the locals who freeload, by using the pools when they're not staying there and the locals who fill sites with 4 or 5 families in each site... or no families in a site, just huge tables and loud speakers.  That I complain about.  

But yes, if we lived local, we'd be there...often 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

9 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

It’s all BS. There is a secret equation to how the fort reservation system works. TCD and I were discussing on another thread about how some people get the same sites every holiday. CM can’t even figure that one out.

The same way I did and the same way we always got the same room at the lodge, you ask.

If you're there on a regular basis the people at the Outpost get to know your name and face. If you ask for the same site or a specific site when you make your reservation, 9 out of 10 times they will give it to you. Also many of those weekenders use the local TA's, many of which are also FORT regulars themselves, and I guarantee you they know who the site assigners/ managers are. H..l, I even had their name, "e" mail and direct # as do others, but you don't publicize it.  If you do, you're stupid.  

As for a CM saying they don't know how it happens.. that's just being PC because they do know.