Another Auld Lang Syne: The TCD Gang Rings in 2014 @ The Fort!

[Memphis 105]

Yeah, it's amazing all the different kinds of watercraft you used to be able to take out into the lake that you no longer can.

 

I haven't seen anyone out waterskiing in a while either.  Not even Goofy.

 

TCD

I went to the http://sammyduvall.com/rates/  page expecting the prices to be outrageous but really they are not that bad considering where they are located.  They use top end equipment and provide 2 CMs to take you on your trip. If was not so old and out of shape I would give it a go. I skied many a mile in my youth on the Mississippi and Tennessee Rivers.  Lived on lake Tarpon the first 14 month in Florida with a boat dock in the back yard. Went out almost everyday that first summer. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

If they remove the dam, I wonder how they will control the water levels (or whatever it is that the dam is there for).  

[fortpartyof4 108]

Maybe they're going to install tracks in the canal and resurrect the 20,000 leagues ride.  Then they'll put the old skyway ride over it for the return to the fancy new hotel.  Of course, they'll build some fancy faux walls along the banks so the hoity-toity hotel guests don't have to see us filthy campers.

[BigTom 76]

Maybe a filter to remove duck weed from the water

[devores 382]

If they remove the dam, I wonder how they will control the water levels (or whatever it is that the dam is there for).  

They were doing some work on the canal just past the new resort as well. Installing something (maybe another damn dam). They could control the water level from that point and dredge the canal to allow small boat traffic. Depending on who owns the canal, Disney may have no say in the matter. Of course, once they reach Disney property that's a different story. But I believe Golden Oaks was promised transport to the MK at some point.

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

They were doing some work on the canal just past the new resort as well. Installing something (maybe another damn dam). They could control the water level from that point and dredge the canal to allow small boat traffic. Depending on who owns the canal, Disney may have no say in the matter. Of course, once they reach Disney property that's a different story. But I believe Golden Oaks was promised transport to the MK at some point.

 

I agree if they install another damn upstream of the Four Seasons then they could remove this dam completely.  BUT that would require a SFWMD Individual Permit, and I did some looking a while back and couldn't find anything that showed work in that area.  The Canal has RCID easement over it right?  RCID handles all the stormwater on Disney property, but they still would have to get a SFWMD permit.  So either they hid there permitting with another project I couldn't find or its minor repairs or something like replacing the dam with a new one in the same spot and keeping the same water control elevations.

 

I think the bat house thing is very suspicious, but I just had a thought about the dam.

 

Didn't the Four Season resort, golf course, or Golden Oaks include reshaping the canal within their property?  If that's the case they are about to really stir up some sediment creating some muddy water.  With the newly installed permanent pump they can't protect the water they pump from the canal into Bay Lake. This new fancy temporary system would allow them to continue pumping clean water from the temporary muddy water of the canal.

 

Since they just installed the permanent pump and piping I really doubt they would tear it up to build a new dam.

 

Those are my current thoughts, I'm sure I'll have some more.

 

WBI

[devores 382]

 

Since they just installed the permanent pump and piping I really doubt they would tear it up to build a new dam.

 

 

WBI

Ive been involved with hundreds of government contracts.

 

If a contract is awarded years before work begins, then changes occur, the work must still be done or contractor get paid.

 

Ive seen entire bases built up to pristine conditions only to shut them down a year later.

 

We refurbished a 1 million gallon fuel tank and never put fuel back into it because a new fuel farm took the place of the old tank. But the contracts were awarded and had to be honored. Could be the same thing.

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

 

If a contract is awarded years before work begins, then changes occur, the work must still be done or contractor get paid.

 

 

I mostly agree, that can happen, especially with government contracts, but there is usually a way for the owner to get out of the contract before Notice to Proceed is given to the contractor.  In my experience the contract is usually more favorable for the owner, I'm sure that's the case with Disney.  I would also think that contractors are hesitant to push to hard on Disney because there will always be another big project in the future that they want to bid.

 

I've heard of projects where the owner awarded the project but then kept postponing the Notice to Proceed, after a certain point the Contractor has the option to cancel the contract, thus allowing the contractor to be free for other work and getting the owner off the hook.  Now in some contracts there may be a penalty to the owner for that but I would think its minor compared to building the project.

 

haha but this is all hypothetical I think we can all agree there's lot of different contract types out there and lots of companies, government policies and lawyers that know how to handle them in different ways.

 

WBI

[momof3kids-Yvonne 594]

If they remove the dam, I wonder how they will control the water levels (or whatever it is that the dam is there for).

Hi Dave!

Glad to know you haven't been captured.

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

Ive been involved with hundreds of government contracts.

 

If a contract is awarded years before work begins, then changes occur, the work must still be done or contractor get paid.

 

Ive seen entire bases built up to pristine conditions only to shut them down a year later.

 

We refurbished a 1 million gallon fuel tank and never put fuel back into it because a new fuel farm took the place of the old tank. But the contracts were awarded and had to be honored. Could be the same thing.

Then why do government contracts have "cancelled for convenience" "withdrawn for convenience" clauses. That happens often. Or they don't exercise options.

[blm2003 2]

 

There were three marching bands that came by before the parade started.

 

Three.

 

That must have been a blast for those kids.  They were all from out of state.  

 

A little late to the party, but I'm here. 

 

I timed my high school career perfectly, I was able to take part in two band trip to WDW. I marched down Main St and played on a stage in Epcot....as an 8th grader and as a Senior. It was an experience I will never forget! 

 

Disney really made us feel like rock stars with our backstage access and just in general with the way we were treated. Some of my best memories of high school are band trips!  

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

The yellow floaties are to keep construction silt and materials from entering the waterways. The box the filters are connected are to clean the water before allowing it to enter seven seas. This would tell me they plan on doing some serious construction either on the banks or in the canal itself.

 

This could support my theory of them removing the dam and having boat transportation form the 4 seasons to MK.

 

I was not a believer in your theory about them providing boat transportation to the Four Seasons.

 

But, you are right- they sure have been doing a lot of work on this canal, both here and upstream.

 

The yellow floaties are called turbidity curtains, and you're right- their purpose is to prevent construction debris from contaminating a waterway.  Since there are three rows on either side of the bridge/dam, that would suggest that there is some major work planned to take place in the area inside of the curtains.

 

I imagine that there are all kinds of options available to replace the current dam with something that would allow boat access to the canal.  Couldn't they build a lock, like on other canals around the world?  Why not?

 

One of the reasons I have believed that they wouldn't have boat transportation to the new resort is the distance- it would be a long ride.

 

The longest boat ride from a resort on WDW property that I can think of is the boat that goes from Port Orleans Riverside to Downtown Disney.  I mapped that, and it looks like it's 1.89 miles:

 

 

The distance a boat would travel from the MK to the Four Season would be 2.59 miles:

 

 

But, they could make this a non-stop ride.

 

And, it would be a very nice, peaceful and scenic way to go to the MK.  I imagine guests would prefer a long boat ride to a quicker bus trip.

 

So, maybe you're right!

 

 

I went to the http://sammyduvall.com/rates/  page expecting the prices to be outrageous but really they are not that bad considering where they are located.  They use top end equipment and provide 2 CMs to take you on your trip. If was not so old and out of shape I would give it a go. I skied many a mile in my youth on the Mississippi and Tennessee Rivers.  Lived on lake Tarpon the first 14 month in Florida with a boat dock in the back yard. Went out almost everyday that first summer. 

 

Thanks for that link.  You're right- those prices are in line with what places over here where we live charge to rent out jet-skis and such.  The parasailing may actually be cheaper than what they charge at Clearwater Beach. 

 

I didn't know that they still offered water-skiing.  It's been a long time since I've seen anyone out on the lake skiing, but I guess they still do it.

 

You and I have something in common.  Many moons ago, I went in with a friend and bought a little ski boat which we owned for two summers. They let you ski in the Lake Tarpon outfall canal then.  We would put in at an old boat ramp on Brooker Creek, and ski that canal every weekend.  Can't do any of that anymore.

 

If they remove the dam, I wonder how they will control the water levels (or whatever it is that the dam is there for).  

 

Wait.

 

Stop the presses!

 

DIT has arrived!

 

Page 6 Bragging Rights go to him!

 

Well done.

 

As far as the dam goes, you're right- if they take it out, they will have to replace it with something else.  I think there are a lot of options in that regard.

 

Maybe they're going to install tracks in the canal and resurrect the 20,000 leagues ride.  Then they'll put the old skyway ride over it for the return to the fancy new hotel.  Of course, they'll build some fancy faux walls along the banks so the hoity-toity hotel guests don't have to see us filthy campers.

 

LOL.

 

I remember discussing on another thread the option of them just building a boat dock for the resort right on Bay Lake, and shuttling guests back and forth to it. It's only about a mile they would have to travel along that canal.  That could be done, and they could use something like a train or people mover rather than a tram or buses. 

 

Maybe a filter to remove duck weed from the water

 

Could be, but it seems like they have this all focused on just the immediate area around the dam.

 

And, it's obviously just a temporary set-up.  It's there for some project, and then I assume it will be broken down and removed.

 

They were doing some work on the canal just past the new resort as well. Installing something (maybe another damn dam). They could control the water level from that point and dredge the canal to allow small boat traffic. Depending on who owns the canal, Disney may have no say in the matter. Of course, once they reach Disney property that's a different story. But I believe Golden Oaks was promised transport to the MK at some point.

 

I remember you mentioning that before.

 

Disney doesn't own the Swan and Dolphin, but they provide transportation there.  The guests at the Four Seasons will want to visit the parks.  It would make sense for the Four Seasons to contract with Disney to provide the transportation.  So, even though Four Seasons doesn't own Bay Lake or the canal, if there's enough money thrown Disney's way, there's no reason they couldn't have a boat to and from the MK.

 

I agree if they install another damn upstream of the Four Seasons then they could remove this dam completely.  BUT that would require a SFWMD Individual Permit, and I did some looking a while back and couldn't find anything that showed work in that area.  The Canal has RCID easement over it right?  RCID handles all the stormwater on Disney property, but they still would have to get a SFWMD permit.  So either they hid there permitting with another project I couldn't find or its minor repairs or something like replacing the dam with a new one in the same spot and keeping the same water control elevations.

 

I think the bat house thing is very suspicious, but I just had a thought about the dam.

 

Didn't the Four Season resort, golf course, or Golden Oaks include reshaping the canal within their property?  If that's the case they are about to really stir up some sediment creating some muddy water.  With the newly installed permanent pump they can't protect the water they pump from the canal into Bay Lake. This new fancy temporary system would allow them to continue pumping clean water from the temporary muddy water of the canal.

 

Since they just installed the permanent pump and piping I really doubt they would tear it up to build a new dam.

 

Those are my current thoughts, I'm sure I'll have some more.

 

WBI

 

Thanks for weighing in on this, Nick.  We have discussed this damn dam many times.

 

That new pump may very well have been built in anticipation of replacing the current dam and bridge with something else.  I don't see any reason they couldn't build something that could be opened and closed to let boats in and out if that is what they want to do. They really don't even need a bridge here, so that could be removed.  If they still wanted a bridge, it could be some kind of drawbridge.

 

Time will tell, but I think you're on the right track that something significant is about to be done to the dam.

 

TCD

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

I am about to post photos that very much support Dave's Secret Iranian Nuclear Project Theory.

 

If he doesn't comment on those, then the only thing I can think of is that they have caught him and are holding him captive.  He should have kept his mouth shut.

 

TCD

 

You could be on their list next..... watch out.... you are bringing too much awareness to the dam. 

 

If they remove the dam, I wonder how they will control the water levels (or whatever it is that the dam is there for).  

 

You're ALIVE!!!!!!!!!

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

On a side note if they do relocate the dam to closer to the Four Seasons that would cause the water level in the Fort Canals to rise. That would be nice.

But at the moment I dont think they are moving it.

WBI

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Ive been involved with hundreds of government contracts.

 

If a contract is awarded years before work begins, then changes occur, the work must still be done or contractor get paid.

 

Ive seen entire bases built up to pristine conditions only to shut them down a year later.

 

We refurbished a 1 million gallon fuel tank and never put fuel back into it because a new fuel farm took the place of the old tank. But the contracts were awarded and had to be honored. Could be the same thing.

 

Our tax dollars at work.

 

I don't like this, but I understand it.  When you're operating a big organization, things get bogged down, and sometimes the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

 

Disney isn't the government, but it is a big organization- so I agree- the fact that something is getting improved is no guarantee that it's not going to get ripped down and replaced if that's what they ultimately decide to do.

 

 

I mostly agree, that can happen, especially with government contracts, but there is usually a way for the owner to get out of the contract before Notice to Proceed is given to the contractor.  In my experience the contract is usually more favorable for the owner, I'm sure that's the case with Disney.  I would also think that contractors are hesitant to push to hard on Disney because there will always be another big project in the future that they want to bid.

 

I've heard of projects where the owner awarded the project but then kept postponing the Notice to Proceed, after a certain point the Contractor has the option to cancel the contract, thus allowing the contractor to be free for other work and getting the owner off the hook.  Now in some contracts there may be a penalty to the owner for that but I would think its minor compared to building the project.

 

haha but this is all hypothetical I think we can all agree there's lot of different contract types out there and lots of companies, government policies and lawyers that know how to handle them in different ways.

 

WBI

 

Good points.

 

There are different divisions or subsidiaries, or whatever you want to call them which have jurisdiction in the area around the canal and dam.  They all have budgets, and it may be that recent work done by one entity gets replace by work done by another.

 

Hi Dave!

Glad to know you haven't been captured.

 

I think you scared him off.

 

Then why do government contracts have "cancelled for convenience" "withdrawn for convenience" clauses. That happens often. Or they don't exercise options.

 

True, but things still happen like what Devores described.  The problem with big entities is that there are too many people involved, and they are going to protect their turf and justify their existence by going forward with things that may be contrary to what some other person has planned.

 

A little late to the party, but I'm here. 

 

I timed my high school career perfectly, I was able to take part in two band trip to WDW. I marched down Main St and played on a stage in Epcot....as an 8th grader and as a Senior. It was an experience I will never forget! 

 

Disney really made us feel like rock stars with our backstage access and just in general with the way we were treated. Some of my best memories of high school are band trips!

 

Welcome!

 

You made it on to page 6- if it's good enough for DIT, then it's good enough for you, right?

 

Those band trips are a stroke of genius by Disney.  All of those kids paid something to be there, and I imagine a bunch of parents and families tag along.  All putting dollars in Disney's pockets. 

You could be on their list next..... watch out.... you are bringing too much awareness to the dam.

Good point.

Maybe it's time to move on!

On a side note if they do relocate the dam to closer to the Four Seasons that would cause the water level in the Fort Canals to rise. That would be nice.

But at the moment I dont think they are moving it.

WBI

That would be nice to have some more water in the Fort canals. Maybe some of the slime would go too.

And, I agree with you, I think there would have to be permits if there was something major like moving the dam in the works.

I think that's enough dam talk for now.

Let's move on.

If anyone wants more dam talk, you'll get another chance, because I made a trip back to the dam again on this trip. The next time, I will be arriving in a way I never have before. You may find that interesting.

But for now, we will leave the dam and continue on our morning rounds.

 

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

OK, we're moving on.

 

The dam is behind us.

 

Literally.

 

Just a stone's throw from that mess is my happy place.

 

But, I don't have it to myself this morning:

 

 

 

I guess I'm going to get photobombed by a couple of ducks:

 

 

The sky is still funky:

 

 

I think this is what I was looking for:

 

 

Let's pause and reflect.

 

Because that is what I did here.

 

Another year was about to end.  And a new one would begin.  One more lap around the sun.  We don't get too many.

 

So I stopped and pondered.

 

We had been across the lake there earlier this morning.  Packed in with thousands more.  Right now, as I stood here contemplating, guests were rushing in to the MK by the thousands, and it would soon again be closed because it had reached capacity.  Crazy.  Over here, just a mile or so away, I was all alone. Well, except for the ducks.  And it was quiet.  Peaceful.  Tranquil even.  That's why I love the Fort.  And this little corner of it in particular. 

 

Turning just a bit to the right, this is what I see:

 

 

That's the shoreline of Bay Lake.  It looked like that 50 years ago when good old Walt and his brother visited to check out the land they had purchased for their Florida project.  It hasn't changed.  And I hope it never does.

 

The whole time I was back here, I never saw another person.  That's another reason I love this place.  Here I am in the middle of the biggest and busiest vacation destination in the world, on what may be one of the busiest days of the year, but I'm all alone.

 

Time to move on.

 

I headed down the pedestrian trail.  Nothing new to see along the way.  And ended up behind the Settlement Trading Post.

 

For the past few years, the same camper has occupied the site on the 100 loop closest to the Settlement Trading Post.  She always had great decorations on her site, and I enjoyed them.  She didn't come this year.  When we were here a couple of weeks ago, there were no decorations on that site, and it made me sad.

 

But, this time around, someone new is on the site, and they have some nice decorations:

 

 

Not bad.

 

I walked up the path to take it all in.  Here's a couple of shots of the front of the site.  I like that Happy New Year's hat up there on top- very cute:

 

 

 

Hey, wait a second.

 

This camper has a purple flamingo with a little raccoon hat over there by Santa:

 

 

That's a Snarky!!

 

This site belongs to a Fiend!

 

Right?

 

I don't know.

 

I stalked the site the best I could, but never saw anyone around.

 

Whose site was it?

 

Anyone?

 

The camper next to the mysterious Fiend looks like he/she wasn't going anywhere soon- look how they have permanent stairs there outside the door:

 

 

I headed back out to the area behind the Settlement Trading Post.  The canal was a lovely shade of green this morning:

 

 

I doubt that anyone will be surprised to learn that the covered wagon with the holey roof is still sitting untouched behind the trading post:

 

 

I think they are still right on schedule with that wagon.  If I recall correctly, they will let it sit there for a year or so, and then it will disappear, never to be seen again.

 

Let's see what else there is to see around here.

 

Looks like we have some kind of cone situation going on down there by the Clementine's Beach sidewalk:

 

 

I know why.

 

Do you?

 

Let's take a look:

 

 

 

This is all set up in anticipation of the crowds which will flock to the beach tonight for the New Year's Eve Fireworks.

 

They use this field over here behind Pioneer Hall for a golf cart parking lot:

 

 

Those cones and signs are there to make sure nobody dares drive a cart on to the beach.  Party poopers.

 

Hey look, you can see the Settlement Christmas tree from here:

 

 

Here's a look at good old Clementine's Beach:

 

 

 

It's empty this morning.  Tonight, around midnight, it will be wall to wall people.

 

I'm not quite alone- the fishing guides are down there getting ready to head out, or maybe even coming back from early fishing excursions:

 

 

Since we're here, we may as well take a look around River Country, right?

 

Some day, it's going to be gone.

 

But this morning it looks the same as it did a year ago:

 

 

There are two holes in the fence here that everyone takes photos through.  This is one:

 

 

Looks like I missed the blue tanks in that photo, but they are still there.

 

This is the other place everyone snaps a photo:

 

 

Hey look, there are a couple of turtles who have moved in:

 

 

 

They keep the area on this side of the fence kept up pretty well- it looks like someone put down some new pine straw recently:

 

 

This is the winter photo prop that they use for photos at the Backyard BBQ.  I guess if you really wanted a photo with it, you could sneak in here early in the morning and get one:

 

 

This is my last shot of the old River Country area.   Even though the area on the other side of the fence is an overgrown mess, it still has a natural beauty to it.  This time of year, some of the vines bloom with bright orange flowers- you can see some of the orange flowers on the tree left of center in this photo:

 

 

That's all I have of River Country, and this is a good place to stop.

 

Next up, we will mosey on back to the 1000 loop, and get going on some breakfast.

 

Later, we will be heading out to Epcot on New Year's Eve.

 

Not for the faint of heart.

 

Fuego.

 

TCD

[Momof6....aka Marty 769]

FUEGO!

[Seals 111]

 

 

Hey look, there are a couple of turtles who have moved in:

 

 

 

 

 

Any chance those are rare turtles and their habitat has to be preserved? 

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

FUEGO

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

FUEGO

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

FUEGO

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

FUEGO

[The Troll 67]

Perhaps the dam construction is tied to the revived DVC talk?

 

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts/other--proposed-resorts/2480-ft-wilderness-dvc-plans-leaked

[AC in A2......Aaron 693]

I have a picture of the younglings with the BBQ snowman prop from the last trip.

Someday maybe I'll even share it.

I have been in a funk since we came back and haven't been able to bring myself to do all the uploading and such for a TR.

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

Fuego!

 

And Aaron, get out of your funk and get busy!